Coil Spring Free Length
 

I am going to buy some 700# front and 450# rear springs for my 95 miata and some coilover sleeves. Does anyone know what free length springs I would need? Thanks!

with those rates, depending on the shock either 6"/7" or 5"/6"

is there a spring calculator that will help determine the free spring length needed to adjust ride height. iexample: i want a one inch change in ride height. this isnt going to equate to a spring with a one inch longer free length. spring rate will determine a comression factor. sorry about no caps to start sentence, mobile phone makes it a pain.

you can use Shaikh's spreadsheet.

But there is roughly 560lbs on each front corner and 530 lbs on the rear corners.

a 700 lb spring will compress only about .8" inches in the front. A 450 lb spring will compress around 1.2". Less if the car is acutally lightened.


I tried 7" 550s in the front and i could barely lower it enough...so i'm assuming 700s need to be a little shorter to have some up/down wiggle room to adjust.

The load the spring sees will be increased by the motion ratio. For example, if the motion ratio is 1.6, and the corner weight is 560 lbs, a 700 lb/inch spring will deflect:

(560 lbs x 1.6) / 700 lbs/in = 1.28".

Defection at the wheel (from unloaded) for that 700 lb spring will be:

1.28" x 1.6 = 2.05", more or less.

Where does a person find the motion ratio? I'm guessing this is probably a manufacturer spec.

Shaikh, who has measured it, would tell you it's pretty close to 1.52 for the front, 1.36 for the rear.

The quick way is to measure the total length of the lower arm, then divide the length of the shock to the inner bolts of the lower arm by it. You then have to figure out the degree the spring is laying, and add that into the equation....... Or just use the figures Shaikh has already blessed us with.

Thanks guys, very useful information. I looked at Shaiks spreadsheet and it is very complete and has tons of info that I can use.

According to his spreadsheets, NA is .66 front and .735 rear, coming out as a multiplier of 1.34 F and 1.265 R

I don't think so, Brain.

The mechanical motion ratio is the ratio of the shock mount location to the overall length of the control arm, so whether you use it as a number greater or less than one, depending on which number you choose for the numerator/denominator, either number is the reciprocal of the other. The reciprocal of 0.66 is 1.52; the reciprocal of 0.735 is 1.36.

Shaikh reports both mechanical and bounce motion ratios; I wonder if this is where the difference is, not that I know the difference between the two. I haven't found the ratios you've mentioned; could you refer me to a cell location?

Cool cat fight, btw.

look at you busting out words I fought so hard not to learn in high school. probably explains why the numbers never worked out quite right for me...

http://www.boostedmiata.com/gallery2...2/DSC_0016.JPG

So hypothetically if I wanted to lower my ride height by 1/2" all around, I would need to adjust my coilover perches downward by...
.5" / 1.34 = .37" front
.5" / 1.26 = .40" rear
That is a question. I'm not really going to lower it another 1/2" just yet but I want to make sure I'm understanding the concept correctly.

Between the tubular sway bar stuff in yellow and springs & sway data.


Spring MR (bounce) | Leverage ratios (mechanical motion ratio)
Front 0.72 | 0.66
Rear 0.88 | 0.735

This is the way I understood, however, it's never really worked out well for me. and i always have to pretty much just go by guess-and-check method.

I called my son for those words. He's in colage.

Correct. As with Brain, I've always had better luck with the guess and check. Don't forget to unhook the sway bar or you stand a chance of putting it into preload. I've done that a few times on accident :bang:

Okay, glad I understand the theory. However, in practice I'll probably just drop all four coilovers approximately the same amount, then take the car to get corner balanced again and the individual corners' ride heights will end up wherever the scales tell them to be.

It'd be nice if someone around here had scales. I'm thinking about buying a set then renting them out to get a few of the pennies back.

gimperesting...please elaborate.

When setting a car up on the scales, you might have one corner .25-.50 higher or lower then the other side. Unhooking the end links, set the one side up till the bar is parallel with the pavement (or close, this part has little science behind it), then adjust the other end link to where the bolt slips in and out without any force, which gives you zero preload.

I assume you know what preload is?

http://www.longacreracing.com/articles/art.asp?ARTID=30

This is a good read and it explains why I'm able to get away with my 400F/225R setup as a DD/AutoX car

there was no mention of scales when you suggested that. so i was curious. i can hardly adjust my sway bay with my endlinks, took an act of god just to get them in the holes.

On this topic - DOES any know if the ERS springs (for the spec) will work with GC coilovers? They say it's for the AWR coilovers, but dam if I need to buy a whole new suspension system! I have 500s in the front now and I'm getting some wheel well rub in hard barking and cornering with my 225/45s. Running Koni adj yellows with my GCs. Thanks guys!

so long as they are both the same ID and coilover springs i don't see why not.

What kind of adjustable links do you have?

I had ISC's before they froze up. I was in a hurry installing them and didn't use antiseize. The new set are 1/2" teflon coated dirt track shop specials.

If it is a 2.5 inch spring, it'll fit. I have QA1 springs on my GC collars. Watch out, the 500's are already maxxing out the Koni Sports. They will be unable to control any higher rate of spring.

The racing beat one IIRC. I have the front bar on the stiffest setting, I remember it being a real bitch to get them installed on that hole. I don't have a rear bar :)

Thanks for the input... will be looking from some new struts as well then!

Wrong ratio's:

* .5” / 1.52 = .33” front
* .5” / 1.36 = .37” rear

Cool beans. That gives me a ballpark idea of how much to adjust. But I'm still not going to bother with trying to set a .04" difference between front & rear. Fine adjustment of the spring perches will be determined on the scales.

Now your just picking hairs :laugh:

I decided to take advantage of this glorious 75° afternoon and degrade my car from balla' status.

I applied the following:

LF = 11.50" + 1.0 / 1.52 == .65" collar increase
LR = 11.75" + .75" / 1.36 == .55" collar increase
RF = 11.75" + 1.0 / 1.52 == .65" collar increase
RR = 11.75" + 1.0 / 1.36 == .74" collar increase

Getting as close to those numbers as I could, the car is sitting pretty at exactly 12.5F and 12.75R. So I'd say those are the numbers to use.

I wish mine was that easy to adjust. I'll have to get new springs. My perches don't screw up and down. :(