Did another track session, brakes not happy... (pics inside)
 

Had a track session today, first time in at least 6 months :) The rollbar, harness and seat make all the difference in actually staying in the right spot without holding yourself in the seat;)

Session was only about 20 minutes and the track is not that demanding on brakes (only 3 hard braking points from 90-100 to 30-40) but still managed to fade them badly. After the cooling down run around the parking lot and stopping, I noticed the brake pedal going to the floor as easy as the throttle pedal. Took zero effort to push the pedal al the way to the floor. I noticed the right front brake caliper burned of most of the paint and the rotor does not look healthy either. The rest of the calipers and rotors still look as good as they did before :hustler:

The right front caliper:
Attachment 211061
Attachment 211062

The left front caliper:
Attachment 211063

What I'm planning on now is stainless braided lines, fluid change to good DOT 4 fluid (ATE super blue is on sale here now) and decent pads, probably Axxis Ultimates or Ferodo 2500's. I don't want to change pads every month for a 20 to 40 minute track session.

Do I need proper ducting (have R-pack lip and splitter) or just learn how to brake properly?:giggle:

The car as it looks right now:
Attachment 211064
Attachment 211065

How was Zandvoort for you today? :)
You may have a dragging caliper since only one front is overheating?
What seats did you get BTW?

Zandvoort was excellent, dry and slightly overcast and some wind, but very nice overall. The sessions were not crowded at all which is very good aswell.
Not sure about the dragging caliper. Shouldn't I have noticed that before? The paint only came of after this sessios and the car never pulls to the right or makes funny sounds at the brakes. I'll check them soon tho. The drive home (20 minutes) was ok, just needed some more brake pressure to actually stop ;)

I have one Corbeau Forza seat btw.

what pads? what power level?

My bad, pads are stock Mazda pads. Fluid got changed a few months ago. Driving around at a whopping 127 crank HP (lost the dyno plot showing rwhp..:bang:)

You still have rust in the grooves after the session? Then you're not getting full contact between the pad and the rotor. Using "all" of the braking power available should seat the pads to the rotor surface in a short time.

There is a technique to braking- it has a "power curve" similar to that of a big turbo on a small engine. That curve allows a smooth transfer of load to the front end. As load moves forward, grip goes up and braking (pedal) force increases.

I raced with a guy who ran Mazda stock pads and never had problems, though they were only good for the weekend which was about 2-3 hours of track time.

i vote caliper sticking. i actually have my driver caliper draging right now, and it doesn't pull or anything like that either.

the rust in the grooves was not there before the session tho. Could a sticking caliper cause uneven contact between pad and rotor? Shouldn't I have noticed this other than visually? (no pulling to one side for instance..)

I'm very surprised there is still rust on the caliper after a track day.

Something not right there imo. I would go with new rotors, pads, and stainless brake lines and see if that fixes it.

Rebuild that caliper first.

Makes sense that you didn't notice it, since you usually don't drive enough to (almost) cook brake parts.

you won't like axxis ultimates... I've been running them for about 2 years purely as a street pad and they aren't good enough. On the track they'd probably get your killed.

i'm on axxis ultimates, on the street tires are the limiting factor way before the pads at any speed

It probably is not rust. Look at his wheel, it's kinda dirty. You probably went through a small pool filled with gravel with that wheel. The other wheel is clean.

This does show grooves in the disc though. I'd rebuild both front calipers and get new discs + pads up front.

So I ordered some pads. Decided to get some Ferodo DS2500s all around. Both front calipers will be rebuilt. Need to take of the rotors to check them, but I'll probably replace them too. Fluid will be done at the same time, aswell as stainless lines.

I thought that, even with a complete stock brake system, you should be able to lock the fronts on the track when braking hard. Never managed to even tho I brake plenty hard:bang:

Good choice. Let us know if it works for you. Where did you order them and at what price?

Getting them through a local race shop here. Price is quite decent. They have a lead time of 2-3 weeks though. Gives me enough time to get things done at least..

they stop fine... the first 2-3 times. they tend to fade like a mother fucker.

I was thinking that it was a sticking caliper, but the rusted rotor grooves are throwing me off. I think the "rust" might actually be brake dust bedded in the rotor. I could be wrong, though.
Pedal feel is gone because you boiled your brake fluid. Been there, done that.
Your new list of brake upgrades is good. I run Hawk Blues on the track w/ r compounds now because I boiled my motul with hawk hp+ pads and race tires.

Let us know your thoughts after you track it with the new equipment.

Stainless lines ordered. Pads are on backorder and should get here in less than 2 weeks. Still undecided about rotors. Fluid will be ATE super blue.
I think that should hold up decently on the track for the time being :)

found some pics, not that y'all care but still:giggle:

Who is waving in the last picture?

The co-driver/onboard camera dude. No-one else drives my car :)

Looking good!

I was thinking of buying some Axis Ultimate pads. I had hem on my old WRX and liked them. Before I buy I want to investigate to see if there are better pads for the money. Arkmage didn't like them. When I purchased them I was told by Stop Tech that non aggressive driving would wear off the transfer layer on the rotors, and would need to be rebedded to regain optimal performance.

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_bedintheory.shtml

Do you think that this might have been Arkmage's issue? Have others had this problem?

Off topic, but Oscar, is that an R-Package front lip?

yeah it is. I added the TDR splitter tho

Yeah, I'm worried about my stock pads at an upcoming Pacific Raceway (Seattle) HPDE. Did one HPDE before (PIR) and pads don't seem to bite as much as they used to (needs more pressure). I'll see what they're like after this one, but I heard that Maruha makes excellent streetable pads.

Oscar, my first track day was a month ago on NHMS (Loudon, NH), a not-very-brake-intensive track, and I faded my pads on the second lap. (More than that, I actually busted the seals on newly changed front calipers)
Fluid was Advance Auto DOT-3, pads were Bendix CQ (ceramics), which are great for the street and auto-x, but sucked tremendously on the track.

I tranny-braked for the remaning three sessions.
Asked my local SpecMiata builder (DWW motorsports), and the answer was "Hawk 9210, aka Blue".
Set of pads + rotors was $250. ATE Blue/Gold for about $12/quart. BMW guy was so shocked when I told him that it takes a whopping 1/2 quart to completely flush my system.

Get proper track pads. Just like a beanie won't pass Snell tests, street pads have no place on the track.

:wavey:

stainless lines came in last week. Still waiting for the Ferodos on backorder...

I'd cancel the Ferodo order. The 2500's are a street pad. I went through a set of 3000's which are their track pad in less than 2 hours driving time - I mean down to the backing plates. I don't know anyone that I track with that has been satisfied with the Ferodos.

Try some Carbotech XP8's for the fronts- they're made for the track but streetable. Put Carbotech Bobcat's on the back. For your power/speed level I think you'll be pretty satisfied with this combo. If not, step up to the Carbotech XP10's or Hawk HT10's.

I autox'd, tracked and daily drove on Bobcat rears w/same rotors for 2 years. Go ahead and get a set of the Bobcat's for front street pads to go with the rear pads. You'll love them.

JMHO

Oh yeah, you really need to rebuild your front calipers - they've been overheated. That would include inspecting/replacing if necessary the rubber boots that the slider pins go into. If you can't easily extract the slider pin or if it doesn't freely slide after greasing, it needs to be replaced.

Additionally, I'd check your front hubs. When I took the Ferodos down to the backing plates, I checked/repacked my front hubs. The grease in the hubs smelt burnt. Apparently they got pretty hot from the brakes.

smallish update: the DS2500 are still on backorder, they seem to have some difficulties with the brakepad linings, which means they won't be produced for at least another month:fawk:

I've asked Emilio to hook me up with some XP8s (fronts and rears). If FM gives a good deal on shipping the Wilwood proportioning valve, I should be good brake-wise :)

I has a cure for your heat....

get these...

Attachment 209856

dust shield to attach shop vac hose to?
ship me them ;)

This is a great idea, why havn't i ever seen something like that before?

XP8s ordered thru 949racing, Thanks Emilio :)

You'll love the XP8s. I would have skipped the SS lines.

So who is selling those brake ducts?

+1 I need those!

skip SS lines as in keeping the stock rubber brake lines?

don't think so:)