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-   -   Extended Ball Joint issue (https://www.miataturbo.net/suspension-brakes-drivetrain-49/extended-ball-joint-issue-91276/)

jmann 11-20-2016 02:08 PM

Extended Ball Joint issue
 
Has anyone else noticed play in these extended ball joints. I was checking my frt whl brgs for play and noticed that both frt lwr ball joints have about a 1/16" play up and down. There is none sideways in the socket but quite a bit straight up and down. These were installed last spring and have 10 track days only. Those who have them should check. I can't believe I am the only one especially since the movement is identical in both.Try lifting the tire straight up and down. Mine has no slack it you pull in and out at the top and bottom.

aidandj 11-20-2016 07:23 PM

No play in mine. Installed early last spring. About 10 track days on them and a few thousand street miles.

unk577 11-21-2016 02:58 PM

Is it the ball moving in the socket or the spindle moving up/down on the stud of the ball joint?

afm 11-21-2016 03:35 PM

Could the LBJ be moving on the FLCA from not being bolted in securely?

wackbards 11-21-2016 05:43 PM


Originally Posted by afm (Post 1376273)
Could the LBJ be moving on the FLCA from not being bolted in securely?

good question. I recently swapped over to ELBJ's, and I had to replace the vertical innermost BJ bolt that sits under the shock mount on both sides because they were totally borked. They must have died a pretty quick death too, because I had only run those OE style BJ's for about a year's worth of DD and they didn't have any visible damage when last I touched them.

jmann 11-21-2016 07:05 PM

The ball is visably moving up and down in the socket when the tire is lifted with the car on a hoist. I had a PM from a person saying he had the same issue but doesn't want to post publicly and offend his vendor which installed them and does all his work. He has went back to the OEM ones.

mmmjesse 11-21-2016 10:05 PM

i suppose i need to check mine.

deezums 11-22-2016 12:08 AM

OEM or die on ball joints.

Lincoln Logs 11-22-2016 12:57 PM

I'll give mine a check next time the car is on the lift. I've had quite a few track miles on them and a number of autocross...haven't noticed a problem yet.

Oh4One4 11-22-2016 06:49 PM

I sure hope this doesnt become a common problem. I have a new set of ELBJ to go in after my third set of failed lower OEM style joints.

Check your ball joints people!

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ca4b6c82ff.jpg

shuiend 11-22-2016 08:07 PM


Originally Posted by Oh4One4 (Post 1376650)
I sure hope this doesnt become a common problem. I have a new set of ELBJ to go in after my third set of failed lower OEM style joints.

Check your ball joints people!

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ca4b6c82ff.jpg

oem from Mazda or oem style from a random parts store?

dc2696 11-22-2016 08:40 PM


Originally Posted by Oh4One4 (Post 1376650)
I sure hope this doesnt become a common problem. I have a new set of ELBJ to go in after my third set of failed lower OEM style joints.

Check your ball joints people!

Context please. Third set in how many track days or miles? Car setup?

Oh4One4 11-23-2016 07:51 AM

Two OEM sets and a Moog set.First OEM set came on the car and lasted about 100k with a few autocrosses. OEM went back in lasted about two years of street driving and 6 track days with a few autocrosses. Moogs lasted about a year and a half with almost all street/ mountain driving. Maybe two autocrosses. Almost all on Hoosiers or 200tw tires, and other than the first set almost entirely at 3.2 -4 Degrees negative camber and 800In/# front springs.

EDIT; 6k-7k street miles per year.

cordycord 12-01-2016 08:51 PM

If anyone has issues, please pm me. While this group is known for being hard on their parts, the ELBJ's are supposed to take it. I talked with the manufacturer and had them do some testing. They did a static test, pressing down on the ELBJ's with a 4 ton press, and they did not fail. However, we all know that racing causes cumulative deterioration--what might be fine today may fail tomorrow.

For that reason I've asked the manufacturer to review and beef up the design. They'll be making the forging larger, and we may go to a larger ball socket as well. That said, our current known failure rate is five out of 1,000.

While there are very few race parts that have a warranty, I will stand behind these ball joints. Anyone who purchases from the current stock will get a "no questions asked" replacement, although I do ask that you pay for shipping.

jmann 12-01-2016 09:06 PM

Thanks Cord I well PM you. My car is very fast and gets driven hard on the track on hoosiers. As for FACTORY OEM joints the same set has been in the car for 5 years of this abuse plus the 100,000 miles that was on the car [original owner and strictly street driven stock] and they are still tight. The only reason I changed them was to get same 4* neg camber with a little higher ride height.

hornetball 12-04-2016 09:52 PM

I lost one too. PM'd.

psyber_0ptix 12-05-2016 07:11 AM


Originally Posted by cordycord (Post 1378520)
If anyone has issues, please pm me. While this group is known for being hard on their parts, the ELBJ's are supposed to take it. I talked with the manufacturer and had them do some testing. They did a static test, pressing down on the ELBJ's with a 4 ton press, and they did not fail. However, we all know that racing causes cumulative deterioration--what might be fine today may fail tomorrow.

For that reason I've asked the manufacturer to review and beef up the design. They'll be making the forging larger, and we may go to a larger ball socket as well. That said, our current known failure rate is five out of 1,000.

While there are very few race parts that have a warranty, I will stand behind these ball joints. Anyone who purchases from the current stock will get a "no questions asked" replacement, although I do ask that you pay for shipping.

What a perfect example of transparency and support. Thanks Cord

90 Turbo 12-29-2016 10:39 PM

Any updates on reliability and longevity?

Lincoln Logs 12-29-2016 11:17 PM


Originally Posted by 90 Turbo (Post 1383883)
Any updates on reliability and longevity?

I've had zero issues on my car so far. I have run 5 hard track days and 10 autocross days since installation in May of this year.

cordycord 12-30-2016 01:46 AM


Originally Posted by 90 Turbo (Post 1383883)
Any updates on reliability and longevity?

We're at five out of 1,600 (0.003125%), and still guaranteed.

psyber_0ptix 12-30-2016 08:02 AM

0.3125%

cordycord 12-30-2016 11:53 AM


Originally Posted by psyber_0ptix (Post 1383937)
0.3125%

Doh! And BTW, please anyone with issues contact me. Feedback is needed. tks.

jmann 12-30-2016 08:55 PM

PM sent

mmmjesse 01-03-2017 02:30 PM


Originally Posted by cordycord (Post 1383920)
We're at five out of 1,600 (0.003125%), and still guaranteed.

out of the 5, do they show to be from a particular batch? Are they from the originals without your logo or the newer with your logo?

Leafy 01-03-2017 08:12 PM


Originally Posted by cordycord (Post 1378520)
If anyone has issues, please pm me. While this group is known for being hard on their parts, the ELBJ's are supposed to take it. I talked with the manufacturer and had them do some testing. They did a static test, pressing down on the ELBJ's with a 4 ton press, and they did not fail. However, we all know that racing causes cumulative deterioration--what might be fine today may fail tomorrow.

For that reason I've asked the manufacturer to review and beef up the design. They'll be making the forging larger, and we may go to a larger ball socket as well. That said, our current known failure rate is five out of 1,000.

While there are very few race parts that have a warranty, I will stand behind these ball joints. Anyone who purchases from the current stock will get a "no questions asked" replacement, although I do ask that you pay for shipping.

They needed to test by pulling up on the stud. Remember the wheel wants to pull the stud up as the weight of the car pushes the housing down.

LBJs from Mazda arent really the answer much any more either, they're having the same crocked cross hole quality issues the parts store ones have so I wouldn't be surprised if they're also as weak. I was really hoping these ELBJs were going to be stronger than OEM, or at least as good as 90's mazda units, and that maybe they'd end up coming out with stock sized LBJs.

hornetball 01-03-2017 09:37 PM


Originally Posted by mmmjesse (Post 1384485)
out of the 5, do they show to be from a particular batch? Are they from the originals without your logo or the newer with your logo?

Mine were the originals, without the easily-inspected logo (they still had a logo, but not in a place a tech inspector would be able to see it easily).

cordycord 01-04-2017 03:39 PM


Originally Posted by Leafy (Post 1384548)
They needed to test by pulling up on the stud. Remember the wheel wants to pull the stud up as the weight of the car pushes the housing down.

LBJs from Mazda arent really the answer much any more either, they're having the same crocked cross hole quality issues the parts store ones have so I wouldn't be surprised if they're also as weak. I was really hoping these ELBJs were going to be stronger than OEM, or at least as good as 90's mazda units, and that maybe they'd end up coming out with stock sized LBJs.

The returns have all come from the first batch, and none from the stuff in stock. You can tell the difference if the laser logo is on the bottom in the circle (2nd batch--in stock now), or on top on the powder coat (1st batch). Returns are 1/3 of 1% of all sold, and like everyone else I want 0%. Two of the returns are from cars with high hp, high down force running 275 Hoosiers.

The new BJ's will be built for the extreme cars. Until then, there are dozens to hundreds of ELBJ's running in NASA Spec, Time Attack, SuperMiata and more. They work.

Leafy 01-04-2017 06:23 PM

.33% within the first year seems pretty steep compared to the old OEM ones. But thats really fine return rate outside of the actual automotive OEM world.

jmann 01-13-2017 11:12 PM

Cord Old ones mailed back today. Thanks

cordycord 05-01-2017 08:15 PM

Quick update--no ball joints have been returned from the second batch. You can tell them because they have the logo on the bottom of the ball cup, not on top. We've only had stock of the second batch now for the past 7-8 months.

Thanks,

Cord


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