Flyin Miata Happy Meals
After countless attempts at adjusting/bleeding/replacing everything, I gave in and had an act installed. I read a lot of threads on this, and just wanted to know if there was absolutely anything that I could have missed.
Long story short I could not get this clutch to disengage. I follwed every single step multiple times, and I could get it to work sometimes but then the problem would always come back and I could not get it into gear. Does flyin miata know about this? I bought that thinking that they were reputable. I am sure they are but I just can't believe that after I had the ACT put in with zero fuss with adjusting it just works fine. Just curious if there has been a solution to this, or should I just never look back on this. I just feel defeated, and a little salty that I wasted 400 bucks on this clutch. |
Nope.
That mirrors my experience with both Happy Meals i've dealt with. Signed, -Happy ACT user |
Man what a bummer. I just dont get how this can happen to some, and others not. I guess i'll just move on at this point. Just good to know i'm not going crazy.
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I have replaced the Flyin Miata Happy Meal Stage 2 clutch and pressure plate that came on my 1.6 w/turbo car with a Supermiata Sport clutch, with the organic disk. I love the new clutch. It's a 1.8 version, because I already had the 1.8 Happy Meal lightened flywheel. It has a softer pedal, and engages/disengages in the middle of travel. I can shift more quickly, with less effort, and it has a smoother engagement. Its good for up to 290hp.
The Happy Meal clutch had been grabby, has a pretty hard pedal, and has been a pain to set up a good release point. I replaced both the clutch master and slave, then bench bleed those to the last degree. It still resulted in a clutch disengagement point that was all the way to the floor, even after removing the rubber stopper for the clutch lever to give it more travel. I finally was able to get it to go into 1st gear and reverse without having put it there by using excess force. Every shift still required pushing the pedal all the way to the floor to complete. I was able to cheat a bit by rev matching, sort of bypassing the clutch's poor disengagement characteristics, but it was never really possible to nail a quick shift with it set up like that. I've read that other people have thought it was a pretty poorly designed product. It even came with special instructions that force you to take every adjustment to the very limits just to get it to work at all. It was also hard to modulate or get away from a stop gracefully. At first, I thought it was just me getting used to it, but in retrospect, I just don't think it is designed right. |
I just don't understand all of the excuses/adjustments as to why it wasn't working. Looking back on it they even went as far as telling me to file down the blue bumper to get "maximum travel" I just don't get why it was such a hassel when there is other products out there that do just fine. I can't imagine I am the only one who wants to send them a snotty email that will get ignored and nothing will come of it. I won't but I sure do feel like it.
My final straw was me missig out on a track night at my local place. I went to get into the car and It wouldn't go into gear (again) it was a beautiful night, and i had to miss out on it simply because of an expensive clutch with less than 500 miles on it. I am glad to hear both of you had good luck with replacing the clutches to new and the problem went away. |
I had the same concerns. Each time i phoned tech support about the clutch, they suggested that i might need to modify the bumper/stopper on the car to allow adjustment further than Mazda intended. I'm not one to worry necessarily about "Well Mazda designed everything perfectly," but if no other clutch on the market requires this, that speaks volumes.
I suspect they're actually using a mix/match of parts to allow for higher torque handling with minimum pedal effort change and it's resulting in these issues. |
I really do appreciate the replies. It has been drivine me crazy, and finally resulting in a different clutch fixxing the problem I guess is ok. (first world problems)
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Nope, that mirrors my experience with the Happy Meal that came installed in my MSM. I FINALLY got it to just barely release so that I can shift into 1st and reverse. FM recommended shaving or removing the rubber bumper pad as my next step. I extended the master cylinder pushrod almost to the point that the bleed hole gets covered once it's warmed up. The car was raced on a few tracks by both previous owners and the clutch mileage is unknown but it seems like it barely wants to fully clamp under boost. The FM2 Garret upgrade was installed in 2010 and the car only had 21.5k miles when I bought it...clutch does hold at 12 psi so some of that excessive slippage feeling could be the anti-shock valve on the MSM master cylinder that bleeds pressure down more slowly and doesn't allow the clutch to be dumped hard.
I plan on building the engine after I get the Hydra replaced with an MS3 and 3.63 gears installed late this Fall. I suspect I'll be replacing it with the engine build while everything's easily accessible. If it's easily glazed now I can imagine it won't like ~18 psi and 275-300 WHP. I wouldn't mind a more firm clutch pedal pressure, the FM Happy Meal does indeed retain OEM feel but IMO, it's almost too light. |
I had a used FM1 and now a FM2 and no issues. I am deeply in love with the clutch feel on the level 2, driving a stock miata around now with the feather pedal and I have no idea what it's doing half the time.
Mine is sticky for the first couple strokes, then it's fine. Pretty sure FM will tell you they designed the clutch to steal as much unused travel from the stock hydraulics as possible, so they can make it clamp harder with less pedal effort. I've trimmed the stopper and adjusted the pushrod to get the most stroke out of the master and never had a problem, besides the masers and slaves sucking dick. |
Originally Posted by deezums
(Post 1603608)
I had a used FM1 and now a FM2 and no issues. I am deeply in love with the clutch feel on the level 2, driving a stock miata around now with the feather pedal and I have no idea what it's doing half the time.
Mine is sticky for the first couple strokes, then it's fine. Pretty sure FM will tell you they designed the clutch to steal as much unused travel from the stock hydraulics as possible, so they can make it clamp harder with less pedal effort. I've trimmed the stopper and adjusted the pushrod to get the most stroke out of the master and never had a problem, besides the masers and slaves sucking dick. |
I guess I got lucky with the clutches I got, you know you'd have heard otherwise if not!
FM's new reroute still stupid dumb, though... |
Having to trim a stopper to make hydraulics work on a 250hp car isn't really my definition of "lucky" but we all have our triggers i suppose.
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I think you misunderstand. The hydraulics always work. The stroke of the hydraulics aren't enough to fully release the modified pressure plate. You trim the stopper to make the pressure plate work.
I have a feeling something similar is at play whenever anyone gets a FM clutch that doesn't work... |
I guess my biggest thing is I just couldn't ever get it to work without messing with it. I carried a 10mm and 12mm around in the glove box just knowing that it might need to be messed with. The hydraulics system in my car was changed twice and blead to the point of insanity. I am just wondering what allows some to work and others to not. Any part can have some good and some bad but this seems to be a very common thing from what I've read. So Im left wondering if it is will they do something to fix it in the future?
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Originally Posted by deezums
(Post 1603627)
I think you misunderstand. The hydraulics always work. The stroke of the hydraulics aren't enough to fully release the modified pressure plate. You trim the stopper to make the pressure plate work.
I have a feeling something similar is at play whenever anyone gets a FM clutch that doesn't work... |
Originally Posted by srnfoto
(Post 1603644)
I guess my biggest thing is I just couldn't ever get it to work without messing with it. I carried a 10mm and 12mm around in the glove box just knowing that it might need to be messed with. The hydraulics system in my car was changed twice and blead to the point of insanity. I am just wondering what allows some to work and others to not. Any part can have some good and some bad but this seems to be a very common thing from what I've read. So Im left wondering if it is will they do something to fix it in the future?
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The bottom line is that at best, this FM setup can be made to work if you tweak the free play to the n'th degree, and you get lucky. I did every tweak possible, and barely made it work. It did work fine intermittently, but was consistently tended to be hard to get into reverse or 1st when cold. It would be good for a couple of months, then get fussy again. I liked the snappy engagement, but was countered by the fact that you had to push the pedal all the way down to the floor to get it to shift. That gives you a big time gap between gears while all that monkey motion is happening. Not an ideal attribute for a performance clutch.
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Originally Posted by srnfoto
(Post 1603644)
I guess my biggest thing is I just couldn't ever get it to work without messing with it. I carried a 10mm and 12mm around in the glove box just knowing that it might need to be messed with. The hydraulics system in my car was changed twice and blead to the point of insanity. I am just wondering what allows some to work and others to not. Any part can have some good and some bad but this seems to be a very common thing from what I've read. So Im left wondering if it is will they do something to fix it in the future?
Or finally, a total lack of understanding on how the hydro cylinders work together, as Concealer still seems to be stuck on. I guess there's relevance between possibly having to trim a 32ndth off a rubber pad and totally fucking an open bypass coolant loop for no apparent reason, but only in wacky world. Lastly, you think this is only an issue with FM clutches? I highly doubt it. https://www.miataturbo.net/suspensio...0/#post1456439 https://www.miataturbo.net/suspensio...0/#post1463291 https://www.miataturbo.net/suspensio...0/#post1463295 Oh snap? You have to adjust the upper clutch switch? What fucking garbage, right Concealer? |
Originally Posted by deezums
(Post 1603729)
If I had to guess, I'd say they might have thrust clearance issues. If you are well out of spec you are gonna waste clutch throw on taking out the slack. Could be a snapped or bent fulcrum, because that happens too. Otherwise, it wasn't as well bled as you thought it was. Properly bleeding brakes and clutches is really hard for some people.
Or finally, a total lack of understanding on how the hydro cylinders work together, as Concealer still seems to be stuck on. I guess there's relevance between possibly having to trim a 32ndth off a rubber pad and totally fucking an open bypass coolant loop for no apparent reason, but only in wacky world. Lastly, you think this is only an issue with FM clutches? I highly doubt it. https://www.miataturbo.net/suspensio...0/#post1456439 https://www.miataturbo.net/suspensio...0/#post1463291 https://www.miataturbo.net/suspensio...0/#post1463295 Oh snap? You have to adjust the upper clutch switch? What fucking garbage, right Concealer? I don't see this as class action lawsuits material and I would never take it there obviously. But if this has been happening for over 10 years I cannot believe they haven't done something. |
It's not that it can't be made to work on most Miata, it's that it was designed to bump right up against the maximum pedal travel and pushrod stroke just before the bleed hole is covered once everything heats up. Might just be variances between cars are enough that some have more difficulty and some never quite get it working as designed. I'm overall happy with it but it took a ton of time and adjusting it to the point that I thought the bleed hole was covered. My upper switch is backed out as far as needed before the rubber pad hits the welded on nut...if my memory serves. Thankfully mine has been working solidly this year after spending so much time fixing it last year as it never seems to have been properly adjusted by the previous two owners.
I'm not sure when it was installed but the second owner didn't seem to do any real auto repair work himself. He paid a local shop to raise the FatCat (FatKat?) suspension so he could clear the oversize speed bumps in his apartment complex. He no longer scraped but of course the rake was backwards and heights not even from side to side. It's taken a lot of time to tweak everything but thankfully high quality parts were installed on this track modified MSM. I'm nut unhappy with my Happy Meal and 10# flywheel, just not 100% satisfied. My issues are it chatters too often (usually trying to slip it backing uphill into my garage), it almost couldn't be adjusted to release (cold into 1st/reverse was nearly impossible, rear wheels spun on jack stands in neutral), and the thing just doesn't seem like it clamps firmly at 11-12 psi (as mentioned some of that might be the delay valve on my MSM master cylinder. I need to remove it but that means bleeding it and I'm single living alone sans master cylinder pressure cap adaptor). No matter, when I look into clutches for my target of 275-300 whp the Happy Meal will likely be at the bottom of the list. I don't mind an increase in pedal pressure. Mine shifts quickly despite the super long stroke but I'm pretty good at rev matching. I think there might be a little too much hype for some of these parts versus real world results. |
Originally Posted by deezums
(Post 1603729)
If I had to guess, I'd say they might have thrust clearance issues. If you are well out of spec you are gonna waste clutch throw on taking out the slack. Could be a snapped or bent fulcrum, because that happens too. Otherwise, it wasn't as well bled as you thought it was. Properly bleeding brakes and clutches is really hard for some people.
Or finally, a total lack of understanding on how the hydro cylinders work together, as Concealer still seems to be stuck on. I guess there's relevance between possibly having to trim a 32ndth off a rubber pad and totally fucking an open bypass coolant loop for no apparent reason, but only in wacky world. Lastly, you think this is only an issue with FM clutches? I highly doubt it. https://www.miataturbo.net/suspensio...0/#post1456439 https://www.miataturbo.net/suspensio...0/#post1463291 https://www.miataturbo.net/suspensio...0/#post1463295 Oh snap? You have to adjust the upper clutch switch? What fucking garbage, right Concealer? Here's a data point for you: I've done closer to 20 than 2 clutches on these cars. None have been an issue except for 3: 1) FM1 Happy meal 2) FM1 Happy meal 3) ACT HDR4 (defective disc, was too thiccc) The issue, once again for those of you way in the back of the room, with the FM clutches: The engagement point was around my ears. Attempts to move it in a reasonable location resulted in a clutch that would not disengage when the pedal was at the floor. RIP synchros my dudes. End result: 36" of pedal travel in some bizarre "grey area" of engaged/disengaged. I like a clutch that engages right off the floor. That would be my preference. That is not what the FM1 did in my experiences. It flat out didn't work in my experiences. (Note: every FM2 that i've driven has been fine) Your links don't mean anything. They're links that show the SPM clutch is awesome. Thank for the feedback. |
Update.
After 150 miles on the freshly installed ACT clutch. Zero problems. Clutch picks up towards the top and every gear goes in as it should. It's like driving a different car. |
Originally Posted by srnfoto
(Post 1603909)
Update.
After 150 miles on the freshly installed ACT clutch. Zero problems. Clutch picks up towards the top and every gear goes in as it should. It's like driving a different car. |
Unfortunately after my first track day the ACT clutch failed. I am having a series of bad luck. 3 sessions in car was working really well. Went to put power down on the straight and the clutch started to slip. I ended up having to coast in. I can put the car into any gear while the car is running with the clutch completely engaged and i can row through the gears. Only thing I can think is the friction material on the clutch disc let go. I just ordered a super miata clutch... FUCK!
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Sorry to hear about your misfortune! I have a SPEC (from TDR) clutch in my ~260whp/~220wtq and have been pleased with no issues so far. If I do have issues I'll probably go with the SuperMiata as well. Good luck on getting it all fixed and hopefully this turns out better than any of the previous setups.
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Did your shop ever figure out what happened? I know you said you wanted to diagnose more before we ship the clutch, curious what they found.
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Originally Posted by turbofan
(Post 1604290)
Did your shop ever figure out what happened? I know you said you wanted to diagnose more before we ship the clutch, curious what they found.
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Originally Posted by deezums
(Post 1603729)
Lastly, you think this is only an issue with FM clutches? I highly doubt it.
https://www.miataturbo.net/suspensio...0/#post1456439 https://www.miataturbo.net/suspensio...0/#post1463291 https://www.miataturbo.net/suspensio...0/#post1463295 Oh snap? You have to adjust the upper clutch switch We have the occassional customer that messes with the interlock switch or pushrod adjustment and creates a problem. Sometimes the previous owner messed with the adjustments. In either case, the problem is non-OEM switch and pushrod settings. Revert to stock settings and its dialed. |
My Supermiata Sport Clutch was indeed just fine right after I installed it. I did not have to tweak the adjustment at all!
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This is all good things to hear. I am very over these issues at this point so I'm glad to hear about it.
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Both my friend and I have FM1 Happy Meals in our 1.6 cars. Slaped em in, adjusted the pedal per the instructions and they have been perfect. Mine has seen autocross, drag, track days, 20k miles and went in in early 2017. His had the shell and engine replaced around it and still is good to go.
That said, I tend to reccomend people do the SM clutch since I have yet to hear of any issues with them. |
I had the same issue chasing a FM Happy meal clutch kit not engaging after 4 reinstallations I went another route. I installed a LUK clutch kit and sold the FM kit.
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Well we found the problem....
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...9e27b2c3e2.jpg I am not pointing the finger at ACT. This is very much a series of bad luck. I would love to know if I missed sometihng. The clutch did not seem to slip until the 3rd session and it just let go. I must have not broken it in long enough/correctly/maybe I didn't adjust it right? Lets hope I have better luck with the super miata clutch. This is probably user error. Not sure what I did but my Flyin miata clutch altho it didnt ever adjust correctly, it looked perfect when it got pulled out. |
Update on the Supermiata clutch. 2 track days and a lot ot street driving and it has held up really well. For a 4 puck sprung clutch it is not too bad to drive around. I am happy with it to the point where I put a banner on my car.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4ba4ec8f6.jpeg |
Another documented FM fail.
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Hng, that lil black NA is hawt.
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Originally Posted by turbofan
(Post 1610700)
Hng, that lil black NA is hawt.
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This thread is getting a little cold, but I figured I'd add a couple pennies since I'm on the fence about replacing my tired motor (rod bearings failing maybe) and will probably do the clutch at the same time. I've had an FM level 1 clutch for about 12 years and 50k miles or so. It doesn't have a hard life of heavy torque (maybe 150-160wt), but I'm lousy at rev matching on the track and it doesn't seem to really care. Engagement is near the top of travel - maybe even a little too far out for my preference. To adjust, I didn't do anything other than twist the rod under the dash a bit. It does chatter if I try to slip it at low revs, though that does not seem to be uncommon for heavier clutches. I've learned to live with it, but it's really my only gripe. I don't remember what it's like to drive a stock Miata clutch, but this wasn't dramatically different.
Most of the complaints I see revolving around the FM setup include an aftermarket flywheel, generally the one from FM included in the happy meal. I am on the stock flywheel and plan to stay that way when swapping it again. Not sure how/why the flywheel makes a difference, but that has been my experience with just the clutch. SM products in general seem to be well liked here and technology sometimes evolves, though I'm not convinced I should change brands if my FM setup has been working. |
Just another data point to round out this discussion.
A few months ago I replaced my Churbo with a BW 6758 with a big bump in torque. My old California Clutch couldn't handle it so I bought a FM Stage 2 Happy Meal w/o doing much, if any, research. After I plunked down my money I ran across this post and was immediately hit with buyers remorse. It was too late to turn back so I reluctantly installed it and followed the instructions to a "T". After installation and while in the air I made the necessary adjustments and everything seemed fine. Only, when I put the car on the ground it was slipping like crazy and I was thoroughly pissed. The next morning (before calling FM and giving them an earfull) I did a little test to get some info on how bad things were. I pushed the pedal in a few times to see if I could find the bite point, then there was a small "click" and the pedal went to the floor! I just knew that I had broken something. So I shut off the car, cried a little and Googled where the nearest cliff was so I could jump off. An hour later, I went back out - just to revel in my misery - and started the car, felt a firm clutch pedal and then backed the car out of the garage...everything felt fine. So I went for a short drive and it all seemed to be well. That was a month ago and the clutch has been working flawlessly. I don't know what the problem was before, but everything seems fine now. I know, I should take it all apart and inspect everything, but I'm going to just send it (for now). I've got an ACT 6-puck on back order and I still have the stock flywheel in case something is screwed up. For now, I'm just going to enjoy it as-is. |
I have a stage I with a light flywheel in my turbo NB. No issues thus far in 5k miles. Also, first clutch I have ever installed. And I beat the piss out of it. Just another data point.
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