Latest word on solid street tires?
 

I hate to ask this, since you ask three people and get 6 answers, but....

I've been buying Azenis for my car for a while now, and need a new set. Before that I had T1-R's and T1-S's. Basically, looking for something for my 15x7" rims that doesn't weigh a lot, doesn't slip a lot, doesn't cost a lot.

Should I be looking any further? My list so far for the RT-615's (not to say I don't like the toyos, I'd be open to them with a strong recommendation - or something wider than a 205)

Discount Tires, Custom Wheels, Rims, Goodyear, Michelin, Cooper Tires 342.50
Vulcan Tire Sales - Tires, Tire Chains, Tire Pressure Monitoring (TPMS), and More... Falken - Goodyear - Yokohama - Pirelli - Kumho - Dean - RV Tires and more... 376.00 (includes totes!)
Mazda Parts from Good-Win Racing - Mazda Performance Specialists ~398 (plus tax, discount?), mounted
tires-easy Delticom AG - Online günstig einkaufen 324.12
discount-tires-2go.com: 255.47 + ship (four?)

The totes are pretty cool, btw. :-) Anyway, just wondering if I should be looking at anything else in the "handles really good" category.

Call Brian Goodwin... most times I call, he answers the phone himself. I'm pretty sure he knows absolutely everything there is to know about Miata tire choices... and he gives a discount if you're a member of SanDiego Miata Club.

The Hankook Ventus RS-2 is available in a 225/45/15 size that will fit fine on a 7" wheel (I ran them on 6.5" wheels on my old Civic). I thought they were quieter than the Azenis, but still provided very good dry grip, and decent damp grip. I didn't like the way they handled standing water, but I doubt that is much of an issue for you in SoCal.

Man an RS2 225 is pretty wide for a 7" wheel. I'd think it would be squirmy.

They were fine on 6.5s. The sidewalls are stiff enough that I didn't feel any squirminess. I'd recommend an 8" wheel for them (my eventual plan for next year once my miata is boosted), but they will do fine on a 7.

I usually use pneumatic tires, they work better. YMMV.

Hmmmm, you like the grip? Oh, here's a eustions people forget to ask a lot: Do they squeal a lot when you slide? I hate getting attention from cops just for going around a corner fast. I had dunlops that would squeal when you didn't slide!

Anyway, with a lot of pressure they might be ok. I wonder what the rolling diameter is, really.

RX-7 forums seem to prefer the falkens. And they are a lot cheaper...
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=531694
Someone complains about the falkiens getting hard with heat cycles, and right now, 1st, 2nd are garunteed wheel spin, and 3rd if I work for it, 4th remains a possiblity if I weren't going straight.

Shitty tire compared to stuff now adays, but I have a set of Yokohama ES100's 225-50-15's on 6.5" wheels. They're pretty damn sticky when new, and wet traction is amazing. And 8.5" contact patch even with 6.5" wheels. And cheap. Bang for buck, I like them. But they're only ~15-20K mile tires, depending on how hard you drive. And I think they were recently discontinued.

One more note, from some STI forums:
Several people commented, that it depended a lot on the car's set up. This is interesting, and also, something I'll likely not take advantage of. I'm a set-and-forget allignment guy - not saying it's right. But they all seemed to hate the hankooks on narrow rims, love them on wide rims. Then again, they are AWD. :-)

So far, it's the $25/tire price difference that might call this one, though it is close.

FWIW, I had I think either 2.6 or 2.8* of camber up front on my Civic, and a good autocross alignment and suspension setup (600F/800R springs, revalved konis, swaybars, quaiffe lsd). Under those conditions, I was very happy with the 'kooks. I can't comment on how they would do on a car that doesn't have at least a good alignment.

They don't like to turn as much as some other tires without an aggressive alignment, I liked them, my wheel/tire combo on a friends car sucked.

Note: unless you have to buy right away you might hold on for a bit. Hankook is coming out with the RS-3. Of course you could wait forever as new tires are coming out all the time but these are likely to be awfully good and still affordable.

I have had the Ventus RS-2s for a while and have been very impressed with them.

I've done four track days with them and some autocrosses and they have never squeeled once. Full cold to full hot, small slip angle to very large slip angle, and no noise. Hell I flat-spotted the crap out of one and it still didn't make any noise.

So if you want a tire that doesn't squeal, the RS-2 is for you.

I've run both Azenis and RS2s (autocross and street), and the Azenis had slightly better grip everywhere and significantly better feel, especially on the brakes. That said, the Falkens don't come in 225/45, which I feel obligated to use on 15x8" wheels (narrow tires on wide wheels being the mark of the beast and whatnot), and they've gotten so much more expensive that I'd buy any number of other tires before I bought Azenises again for street tires. And they're not sticky enough for me to consider them for race tires now that I can (nominally :)) afford them.

My next set of street tires (which I will be buying Friday, as I scared the crap out of myself in the rain on the way back from lunch this afternoon) will probably be Falken ZE912s in 225/50-15. I've run 512s before, and been thrilled with them (for street stuff), in fact my father has a set on his 92 SE in narrow/short-14 right now. I expect I will be just as happy with 912s.

For a dual purpose/ sticky street tire, I'd do the Hankooks again, cause they're *good enough*. Other than feel and wear, I've been satisfied. For race tires, I'll be using Avons next year, as I have an extra set available to me. I'll be doing Kumhos after that, I believe. Or maybe the new Hoosiers in 275/35-15. They make my willie tingle.

It sounds like you prefer the Falkens, if size weren't an issue? Since I have 7" rims, which would you recommend (as opposed to which would you buy yourself on your 8" rims)

I really like the Direzza Z1 star specs.

I'd own a set if they made them in the right size. 195/55-15 isn't gonna work for me.

If you want the most badass street tire available, it's down to the 195/50 Toyo R1R or the 195/50 Bstone RE-01R. The Bridgestones are crisper on turn-in, and they like a nice neat driver. The R1Rs like to be manhandled and thrown around. Both will supply unreal amounts of grip and both will last about 10,000 miles.

Not saying they're perfect for everyone, but they work great for my 15psi greddy on 15x6.5 rotas.

Fastest tires right now are the Dizzera Star specs and the REo-1 R's. but the Dizzera's cost a lot less.

Any of those in the $100/tire range?

they dont make them anymore. i had them for a very short time and they SUCKED!!!!!! my $60/tire khumos have tons more grip and feel.

Life is too short to run cheap shit tires. RS2s are crap when they are cold, Azenis are crap on the limit and get greasy when hot. I just got quoted $580 installed for 225/45 R1Rs, so $130ish a tire. I think the 195/50 R1Rs are like $110 a tire.

If I had a lot of money, I would run NT-01s all the time. Street tires blow.

+1 i run only track take-offs on my bike now.

$580 isn't terrible installed. I should just try it.

Needing some warm up isn't too bad, depending what "warm" means - drive in a straight line for 5 minutes? Ok, awesome, don't care.

What don't you like about the Falkens on the limit? I don't like the grease, and I've noticed it, though I thought that was the T1-Rs... I kinda liked those tires.

I've never tried it myself, but Emilio doesn't like them and he's faster than I am on track so I listen. He says they act like a race tire (really crappy breakaway characteristics) without the grip. The RE-01R is supposed to grip harder, be more comfortable on the highway, handle rain better, and do your laundry. My dad just replaced his Azenis on his E46 M3 with RE-01Rs and he says the RE-01Rs are much better.

I love my 205/50/15 RT-615's on Enkei RP-f1s. It's not a daily driver so the tire wear is not an issue.

HPI Potenza RE-01R T-Drift Tires 26mm (4) HPI4423 NIB - eBay (item 230289535435 end time Dec-07-08 16:00:13 PST)
oh! And they are surprisingly affordable.

RE-01r is tire rack's #1 rated extreme performance summer tire in the survey if you give any credance to surveys.

The new RS3 will be interesting to see tested when it hits the streets. I'm guessing Hankook has learned a bunch since the RS2 came out.

Failboat
 

Yeah, unless I want to run 195's they don't make that tire for my 15 inch rims, period,

Why the obsession with 195 section tires?

It's the only size they make?

Look into the Fuzion ZRi. That is what I have now on my DD and they are great. The reviews on them are good too, which is why I bought them. They are 'ultra high performance' summer tires but so far they are wearing well and are not noisy. They are made by Bridgestone.

I have 205/50/15 on stock rims. However I do not think they make the 205/50/15 anymore, or they are limited to available stock, so you might have to get something different. I wish I had bought two sets now. Discount tire and tire rack both have Fuzions.

Looks like Nitto is releasing a new tire in Feburary. The NT-05 looks like it should be a good street tire, but unfortunately it doesnt come in 15inch sizes. Anyone wanna email nitto and tell them to make them in a smaller size?

Nitto Tire - High Performance Tires for Car and Truck Enthusiasts

I don't quite get what your requirements are here... What is the price limit? Is there one? Are you willing to replace these tires in 4000 street miles? What about 10k? 15k? Is noise an issue? Are you opposed to 195/50s or do you HAVE to have 205s? Do you really want race tires or can you deal with slippery street tires and maybe grab a second set of wheels to run gum balls on?

Having taken all this into consideration, I will be running those Falken ZE912s I mentioned. Size not withstanding. They are cheap, last forever, don't scare me in the rain, and come in a size I like. My Miata is my only 4 wheeled vehicle these days, and if I decide to drop everything and go 700 miles to Charleston, SC for the weekend, I like knowing that it won't cost me $50 in tire wear to do so. Again, like I mentioned before, I have a set of Avon race tires to use when the mood strikes me. And for the record, I would NEVER buy lame ass street tires if I didn't have stickies to play on. Same applies for the bikes.

You will have to decide for yourself how much life and money you're willing to give up for grip. For me the Hankooks out value the Falkens. The Dunlops and Bridgestones are the next step up and are a much stickier tire at the obvious expense of life and price. Of course I guess you could just run race tires at all times. If I was a baller like Savington, I'd just do that. Unfortunately I like eating more than I like driving, if only barely :cool:

Any idea how they compare to the Falken RT-615? 'Course, if I can't get them, it doesn't matter.

Good question, I guess I'm just wondering what people think.

195's, I dunno, are they ok on a 7" rim? Plus, I guess there's no curb rash with wide tires? :-)

Still, what I'm looking for is something which has great feel, decent grip, nice breakaway is probably the smarter choice - though these haven't bothered me all that much. I hate tires which turn greasy, though!

Mileage doesn't matter. 4k would be a little short, 10 I wouldn't mind. Road noise isn't a huge issue (it's a convertible!) but squealing sucks. I'd like to just have the one wheel, but since mileage isn't a huge issue, I don't care.


Yeah - I worked out once what I would have to drive buying cheap tires before I'd make back the money in not running high performance tires, it didn't come out well.

That said, why the ZE921 over the rt-615 - hoping to get a few more miles out of it? I don't drive much, really, between the bike and what not, so I can't imagine that something in the ballpark of the 615 is about right. Also, I seem to be able to find these for $80 shipped from a couple places, though I still have to mount and balance them... Meh.

Maybe the race tires at all times is good, I dunno, I hear they are better, but don't know. I guess it's just a mileage issue, which doesn't hurt me too bad at probably 6k/year.

Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3- 205 50 15....Loved them. Awesome dry tire, awesome wet tire. Quiet, and kicks ass right up to the end of it's life. The best tire I have ever owned, period.
Then I got the Toyo T1R- 205 50 15... great handling tire. They have gotten very noisy over the last 6 months. About 10k miles on them. I will be going back to the GSD3 after these are toast.

I'm not sure you'll go back to the GY because they make them only from 16"

I can't seem to find this size anywhere. Are you sure that's what you've got?

I should give the proxies another go, I really liked them when I had them. I remember something going all glassy on me, but mainly after ******** on some mountain road all morning.

I've driven on those tires. They are abysmal pieces of shit, worse than my Falken 912s by a long shot. Seriously, people, stop recommending shit tires.

So far, both in terms of performance, and price, I've heard little to make me think I shouldn't buy another set of falkens. For $80/tire shipped, I can't really complain. The few I have seen on here which even fit my rims are either a) hated by 50% of the people, or b) at least twice as expensive.

The Toyo's are the only exception, but since I'm 50/50 on it, I guess I'll take the 40-100/set savings and just count my money whenever I have doubts. I think it was the toyos which got all glassy on me at the autocross, then again, I was slipping them like mad for three straight laps.

The Toyos are supposed to be one of the top STREET tires. Key word STREET - autocross them hard and they show flaws. The RE-01R is supposed to be like an T1R with less tread life and no performance "barrier".

Seriously, splurge on tires. You're going to have them a year and a half at least, and they make the single largest improvement to the feel and performance of the car. My car was a sloppy nervous mess on 225/45 Hankook RS2s, and it's a poised, stable, brutally fast track car on 225/45 Nitto NT-01s. One change is all it took.

Check out the Grassroots Motorsports August 2008 issue. They compared the following 'cheap skate' tires and used the Bridgestone RE-01R (not cheap) as a reference tire.

Test car: 1990 Miata, NA, KYB shocks and FM front sway, Kosei K-1 15x7 wheels
Each tire road tested over a fixed course
Each tire tested on a kart track (auto-x like) and lap times logged
Tires tested, in order of rank, and their mean lap times:
41.08 Kumho ECSTA AST
41.05 Sumitomo HTR 200
40.87 Fuzion ZRi
40.58 Yokohama S.drive
40.57 Falken Ziex ZE-912
Control tire
39.89 Bridgestone Potenza RE-01R

The street related comments were more subjective, so get the article. They liked the Falken as the best of the cheap tires based on its lap time. But the Fuzion was only 0.3 seconds behind it on lap time, felt the most like the Bridgestone (a good thing), and is the quietest of all of the tires tested. Point being the Fuzion is hardly a crap tire, and is actually the better selection for duty as a street mostly, auto-x occasionally tire.

I had a set of Falkens before on my truck (Ziex) and hated them in retrospect. One of them failed with belt separation before the tread life was used up, and they handled terribly. Wheel squirm under braking, etc. And they were really noisy. I did not know just how bad they were until I scrapped them for a different set of tires and everything improved dramatically. Granted they were two different cars and two different models of Falken. But tread separation is a quality issue.

I did not want to go there again with Falken so I got the Fuzions.

huh, nice article, I will try to check it out. I certainly like the sound of the subjective review of those Fuzions.

Having had a couple sets of Azenas (or however you spell it) and knowing several good friends who run them exlcusively, I can say that I wouldn't use that as a reason to avoid the brand - personally the ZIEX scare me a bit, I dunno why.


Can you get RE-01R's in a 15x7" size?

I'm 100% with you on getting good tires - I've had cheap tires in the past (the last time I drove my first car, in fact), and hated them, plus they take so long to go away.

My Falkens have been good, though they certainly got "old" - losing much of their grip after a year, and losing all of it recently. Of course, I am relearning the fun of sliding the car again, but it doesn't make it much of a tire, and with San Diego's 6 days of annual rain coming up, something at least with treat would be advisable.


edit: Bridgestones only avaialble in 195/50 which might be a bit small in both rolling diameter and width (the prior more concerns me) and the Direzza looks good, but is also only avialable in a 195 (though it's a 195/55)...

..195/50-15 is OEM for your car.

Personally I'd look for a larger (read taller) tire as to help with the shitty gearing the car has. But that probably hurts other aspects if you race your shit in turns. I don't, so it doesn't concern me. I got 225-50-15's and I'm wanting to run something bigger/taller.

Yeah, I just noticed that. That sucks. Those were my favorite tires hands down.

Hmmmm
Anyone got anything to say about this one?

"Latest word on solid street tires?"

Latest word is they still suck, pneumatic tires are still better.
<bada boom>

Well Abe, IMO 109$ is too much for street tires only. I don't know about Kumho XS. For myself, when spring will come, I'll go with Nitto Neo Gen.

I haven't heard any reviews of the XS yet, though Kumho is marketing it as a RE-01R killer.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. :cool:

MX-5 Miata Forum - Kuhmo Ecsta XS
The two or three reviews in here say good things, except the wet performance is supposed to suck. But I guess I'll just have to practice throttle-in-moderation those 4 days of wet in San Diego per year.