looking for advice, koni setup vs $$$
#21
Boost Czar
iTrader: (62)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 79,488
Total Cats: 4,077
they suck in the following situations:
- the mindset of getting into a car with konis
*****sports - backing out of the driveway and concussing from the 0.50" drop of the curb
- hemorraging brain from speed bump #1
- seizure from speed bump #2
- teeth falling out from hitting pothole out of neighborhood
- inablity to take on ramp at any good speed because inferior suspension
- various screws falling from random places once to speed on highway from inability to absorb any inperfections in road
- getting into coworkers car loaded with racelands, enjoying the smooth ride and going just as slow around corners; contracting HIVs.
- Impressing your autox buddies back in 1990 because you worked with Koni to develop a shock with the same damping curve as stock shocks, but with tons of extra rebound in low-speed, so you could stay on stock springs, but to keep you on the bumpstops around longer sweepers thus increasing your springsrates to infinity to get an extra edge in a silly stock class in a silly motorsports event that no one cares about.
- Feeding the troll that is the m.net default "go to" answer for the last 20 years.
- The placebo effect from thinking you improved your suspension setup.
#23
What is missing in this whole coversation is the primary useage for these shocks. If it is a street driven car, stay with twin-tube. Twin-tube shocks have gas pressue that helps prevent the shock oil from frothing (Creating bubbles). Mono-tube shocks do not have the gas pressure so they are more prone to frothing, and when you get air bubbles in the oil, the piston is no longer being controlled by that oil.
There are several schools of thought over which shock is better. I look at it this way, if you want to win National Championships (Autocrossing, NASA, Road Racing) Koni has a geat track record, but then again so does Moton. If you want to hard-park, low-and-slow any shock will work until you smash the piston from removing your bump-stomps.
In my personal cars, I have won money on Koni's. I have not won anything on any Bilstein equipped cars that I have driven. I have also won money on Tiens, but I would not recommend them.
I will warn you, there are two groups of people, the Koni people and the revalve Bilstein people. There is no in between for these groups. Koni people say the revalve Bilsteins are garbage and the Revalve people say the Koni's are garbage.
The correct answer for which shock you should buy, might be this:
Buy the best shock you can afford. If you can afford Koni or Bilstein, buy them. If you can only afford Racelands, save your money until you can buy Koni or Bilstein. See who has what in your area and take some rides and then choose.
There are several schools of thought over which shock is better. I look at it this way, if you want to win National Championships (Autocrossing, NASA, Road Racing) Koni has a geat track record, but then again so does Moton. If you want to hard-park, low-and-slow any shock will work until you smash the piston from removing your bump-stomps.
In my personal cars, I have won money on Koni's. I have not won anything on any Bilstein equipped cars that I have driven. I have also won money on Tiens, but I would not recommend them.
I will warn you, there are two groups of people, the Koni people and the revalve Bilstein people. There is no in between for these groups. Koni people say the revalve Bilsteins are garbage and the Revalve people say the Koni's are garbage.
The correct answer for which shock you should buy, might be this:
Buy the best shock you can afford. If you can afford Koni or Bilstein, buy them. If you can only afford Racelands, save your money until you can buy Koni or Bilstein. See who has what in your area and take some rides and then choose.
#24
Boost Czar
iTrader: (62)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 79,488
Total Cats: 4,077
Konis have a great track record because there was no competition, for a better shock for the miata, for the last 15 years. that doesnt count.
they are the worst shock for the miata. the term shock is fitting for them...as the harsh ride is shocking.
konis are garbage...anything who thinks otherwise, probably spent $300 on a Randall intake and a chrome luggage rack.
they are the worst shock for the miata. the term shock is fitting for them...as the harsh ride is shocking.
konis are garbage...anything who thinks otherwise, probably spent $300 on a Randall intake and a chrome luggage rack.
#25
What is missing in this whole coversation is the primary useage for these shocks. If it is a street driven car, stay with twin-tube. Twin-tube shocks have gas pressue that helps prevent the shock oil from frothing (Creating bubbles). Mono-tube shocks do not have the gas pressure so they are more prone to frothing, and when you get air bubbles in the oil, the piston is no longer being controlled by that oil.
#30
It is the repetitive nature of bumps, dips, wash-boaring we encounter everyday on the road. If you think about most tracks, they are smooth, so the only action a shock may see is the slower loading from side to side, braking, acceleration and the every now and again curb. There is a lot more time between events (Shock shaft movements) on the track compared to street driving.
#31
This is an area where spending the money is absolutely worth it.
You're already at a $500 budget apparently. How many times over the next couple of years do you expect to repetitively "upgrade"? Would it not make more sense to save your beans and get a really great setup once? Xida or FCM type setup?
You're already at a $500 budget apparently. How many times over the next couple of years do you expect to repetitively "upgrade"? Would it not make more sense to save your beans and get a really great setup once? Xida or FCM type setup?
#32
Don't get the Konis. And if you are going to get the Konis buy mine in a few months.
They came on my car, and I hate them. It's bad enough that Tucson roads are apparently driven on by 18-wheelers that have replaced their wheels with jackhammers, but to drive on the road after them with Konis is hell. You will also bottom out on every speed bump because of the lack of high speed damping unless you ricer crawl over them, and even then you're going to scrape rails. You might also get a concussion from dips in the freeway or speed tables if you have a hard top.
To top it all off, most places charge around $100+ to rebuild them, and they're $150 new. I suppose you could get a custom valve job if you could get a used set for nearly free and they'd be a good option when combined with a GC kit, but this goes for all of the revalvable shocks.
Seems like these are the best options based on my research:
(Note: Get NB parts. Buy beg or steal NB top hats. Top hat price not included. You should also get aftermarket sways if you don't have them already.)
R!celands - $375
R!celands w/ lighter rear springs* ~ $475?
FM's V-Maxx - $600
Revalved shocks + GC Kit ~ $600-800 + price of used shocks
Tein Basis - $690
Bilstein Sports + GC Kit - $875
Xida-CS - $2100
Xida Full - $4400
*Can't recall better spring rates for R!celand. Read the thread if you go that route. More information than you can shake a stick at.
I'm going to be going R!celands with different springs next, since my Koni's are old and starting to protest over speed bumps, while I save up for the Xida-CS goodness.
They came on my car, and I hate them. It's bad enough that Tucson roads are apparently driven on by 18-wheelers that have replaced their wheels with jackhammers, but to drive on the road after them with Konis is hell. You will also bottom out on every speed bump because of the lack of high speed damping unless you ricer crawl over them, and even then you're going to scrape rails. You might also get a concussion from dips in the freeway or speed tables if you have a hard top.
To top it all off, most places charge around $100+ to rebuild them, and they're $150 new. I suppose you could get a custom valve job if you could get a used set for nearly free and they'd be a good option when combined with a GC kit, but this goes for all of the revalvable shocks.
Seems like these are the best options based on my research:
(Note: Get NB parts. Buy beg or steal NB top hats. Top hat price not included. You should also get aftermarket sways if you don't have them already.)
R!celands - $375
R!celands w/ lighter rear springs* ~ $475?
FM's V-Maxx - $600
Revalved shocks + GC Kit ~ $600-800 + price of used shocks
Tein Basis - $690
Bilstein Sports + GC Kit - $875
Xida-CS - $2100
Xida Full - $4400
*Can't recall better spring rates for R!celand. Read the thread if you go that route. More information than you can shake a stick at.
I'm going to be going R!celands with different springs next, since my Koni's are old and starting to protest over speed bumps, while I save up for the Xida-CS goodness.
Last edited by TheScaryOne; 03-14-2013 at 06:44 PM.
#33
Boost Czar
iTrader: (62)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 79,488
Total Cats: 4,077
They came on my car, and I hate them. It's bad enough that Tucson roads are apparently driven on by 18-wheelers that have replaced their wheels with jackhammers, but to drive on the road after them with Konis is hell. You will also bottom out on every speed bump because of the lack of high speed damping unless you ricer crawl over them, and even then you're going to scrape rails. You might also get a concussion from dips in the freeway or speed tables if you have a hard top.
I'm going to be going R!celands with different springs next, since my Koni's are old and starting to protest over speed bumps, while I save up for the Xida-CS goodness.
#34
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 2,799
Total Cats: 179
Seems like these are the best options based on my research:
(Note: Get NB parts. Buy beg or steal NB top hats. Top hat price not included. You should also get aftermarket sways if you don't have them already.)
R!celands - $375
R!celands w/ lighter rear springs* ~ $475?
Revalved shocks + GC Kit ~ $600-800 + price of used shocks
Bilstein Sports + GC Kit - $875
Xida-CS - $2100
Xida Full - $4400
*Can't recall better spring rates for R!celand. Read the thread if you go that route. More information than you can shake a stick at.
I'm going to be going R!celands with different springs next, since my Koni's are old and starting to protest over speed bumps, while I save up for the Xida-CS goodness.
(Note: Get NB parts. Buy beg or steal NB top hats. Top hat price not included. You should also get aftermarket sways if you don't have them already.)
R!celands - $375
R!celands w/ lighter rear springs* ~ $475?
Revalved shocks + GC Kit ~ $600-800 + price of used shocks
Bilstein Sports + GC Kit - $875
Xida-CS - $2100
Xida Full - $4400
*Can't recall better spring rates for R!celand. Read the thread if you go that route. More information than you can shake a stick at.
I'm going to be going R!celands with different springs next, since my Koni's are old and starting to protest over speed bumps, while I save up for the Xida-CS goodness.
By the time you piece together many of the other setups, it's not hard to spend more money and time. Just throwin' that out there.
#35
And the Tokico Illumina's? I saw them in FS, but they're NA, and I already have a set of NB top hats and bumps that are itching a hole in my storage unit. And I have mystery springs.
For a mostly street car, I'm not sure a setup like the $700 Tein Street Basis is not a better option.
Last edited by TheScaryOne; 03-14-2013 at 06:47 PM.
#36
Not sure what you mean: tein basis and fm vmaxx are 700 and 600 respectively.
I like both and think they're really similar to one another with the vmaxx being a bit more focused on street driving and the basis on track. Both are about mid-level performance.
I love my fm stg1 setup on the street, hataz gonna hate
I like both and think they're really similar to one another with the vmaxx being a bit more focused on street driving and the basis on track. Both are about mid-level performance.
I love my fm stg1 setup on the street, hataz gonna hate
#39
Just for anyone paying attention:
Vmaxx Classic = 391/258
Vmaxx Track pack = 504/336
I'm "relatively" happy with the Classic's + FM sways, but it hasn't taken much track time to already need more rate and more sway. At the end of the season, XIDA's and Emilio's sways will go on, or if I get enough OT, sooner.
Vmaxx Classic = 391/258
Vmaxx Track pack = 504/336
I'm "relatively" happy with the Classic's + FM sways, but it hasn't taken much track time to already need more rate and more sway. At the end of the season, XIDA's and Emilio's sways will go on, or if I get enough OT, sooner.