@Madjak runs the delrin bushings with success. I'll let him chime in. The bronze bushings are only $1.97 each.

Yes I run the Iglidur G bearings in metric sizing (only 1mm thick). It means the sleeve size is a bit larger and you don't really need the crush washers. I purchased them in 30mm lengths and just hacksaw them down so that 1 and a bit cover the entire sleeve.

My pricing was $1.50 AUS per bearing in a batch of 50... plus shipping. Looking at my receipt is cost me $89 AUS which in current conversion is only $65USD. The best pricing for the bronze was nearly $5 a bearing either shipped from the US or locally sourced.

I've run 12 events on them now, and pulled the suspension down a month ago. They look the same as when I put them in so it looks like the wear level is fine.

I wonder how iglide J bearings compare to plain old delrin, from a lubricity and wear standpoint. How long do full delrin bushings last…or have they not been around long enough for anyone to have a good feel for that yet? I suppose it depends a lot on lubrication and contamination.

$5 per foot translates to roughly $0.50 per bearing, assuming you cut them into eleven 1" pieces. So about 1/4 the cost of bronze. I would actually make them one long piece and drill a hole or three in the center for the grease to get in via the zerk fittings.

Do delrin bushings squeak like dry urethane? I would imagine not.

That sounds encouraging. So you run 20mm x 22mm bearings? Is there any noticeable slop in the poly bushings, being that they are about .010" undersize?

They just slide in with a decent amount of force. You need something the correct OD to push them out again. They are snug enough so they won't turn against the urethane which squishes them against the sleeve a little.

I should point out that I don't drive my car on the road so I can't comment on suitability for a daily driver. I also don't run any grease in the joint. They are dry, so no zerks required.

edit: yes mine are the 20mm x 22mm x 30mm bearings. part number GSM-2022-30

Looks like I can get pre hard 416SS from McMaster in 20mm precision ground, but Im sure it would be a bitch to drill, if its even possible…

Otherwise they also have 20mm 12L14 precision ground for cheap. Leaded means SUPER easy to machine, 65 ksi yield isn't bad, and it can be case hardened if one were so inclined.

Wow, only $1 each when you buy 50…


As long as I can figure out the 20mm shafting, this might be a winner in my opinion.

yeah metric stuff is cheaper here and in Europe due to volumes... as long as you can source the bar it would be a better longer term option, even if you have to replace them every few years.

I purchased a 3m bar of peeled 20mm 4140 for like $30... had to buy some ally bar to fill in the min $50 order. I did all the drilling myself on my hobby lathe, just had use lots of lubricant and sharp bits. I used a grinder with a cuttoff to rough cut each sleeve then lathe down each end. Once I got into the flow it only took a couple of hours on the lathe to get them all done.

I haven't been making delrin bushings long enough to get a feel for it, but there are plenty of other cars and platforms that have been running it since forever. Im sure there is data out there somewhere. According to DuPont, dirt contamination is the largest cause of wear. Delrin doesn't squeak, usually.


12L14 drills like butter, but it will rust so fuking fast(galvanic corrosion from lead contacts). Also look at 1144SP. Have you checked onlinemetals.com? I find them to be much cheaper for stock than McMaster.

Yes online metals has good prices, but not much metric stainless other than 304 and 316.

These guys have an awesome selection of 20mm ground rods for good prices and you can buy them is 1,3 or 6 feet:

Stainless Steel Metric Rods On Alexandria Precision

Nitronic 60 or "N60" is another attractive option from Onlinemetals. Only available in imperial sizes, but it is very corrosion and wear resistant and has 60 ksi yield. Not sure how it machines though.

Any reason you are choosing metric over standard? The bronze bushings are cheaper than the delrin you posted.

You're car is the one with the sweet 3d printed brake ducts right? I've been wanting those real bad. Your fab skill are on point, excited to see what you come up with.

Edit: just realized you mentioned cutting your own bearings earlier.

If im not mistaken, nitronic is similar to inconel and machines as such. Which means it needs specialized tools on rigid machinery with flood coolant and aggressive machining. And its still a bitch.

https://www.hpalloy.com/docs/HP_Alloy_MACHINING.pdf

machining nitronic 60

LOL machinability in the teens and low 20s.

Are you referring to me? I'm not sure you are, but I have 3D printed intakes on the front lip for my brake ducts. I've had them for a year or so.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1457068427

Edit: Oh I just found MX592's 3D printed stuff... awesome air intake for the oil cooler! It's got me inspired to make something like it. We need to start a 3D printed section on this forum.

I was referring to him. You have the r package lip. We tried to adapt it to the gv lip with some success. He already has it for the gv lip.

I remember now it was you I was making it for. I never did get the GV one working as no-one near me had the GV front lip. It's a bit hard to remote prototype!

Just reporting in that the SADfab FLCA offset bushings at 4.0" pinch weld height are right at about -3.5 degrees of camber in the middle of their adjustment range. I was able to get to -4.0 in the front pretty easy.

I received the full delrin kit that I ordered from sean today in the mail. I figured I'd spend the day trying to get as much of the suspension torn down as possible. I already had poly bushings in all locations so removing the bushings isn't quite as hard as when I installed the poly bushings. Still a fucking pain in the dick, mostly because I don't have a press and I'm trying to do everything with a one of those giant HF c-clamp looking 4wd balljoint tool(it weighs like 25 lbs), fuck me with a spiked ball bat.

Tomorrow I am going to buy a vice to hold that ball joint tool and a 12" c-clamp. I don't know why I don't have either of those things yet. I did get 3 corners of the car completely disassembled, but it was slow going. Going to try to wrap it up tomorrow.

I'm also swapping out lower front ball joints for the extended ones and changing from a 700/400 spring set up to 800/550. E're thing gon' be different.

That ball joint tool sucks, get a helper, makes it 10 times easier. I will say you are less likely to destroy a control arm like i did that way.

Also don't forget a good corded 1/2 chuck drill, and corresponding drill bit. My cordless drill battery lasted 1.5 bushings on a full charge.

I'm not sure if my corded drill will accept a 1/2 drill bit shank. I know it'll take a 3/8" bit. I purchased a 7/8" bit with 1/2" shank as instructed and it fits fine in my battery drill. I have 4 batteries so I'll do what I can, but the 2 bushings I did do already didn't seem to need much reaming at all.

I'll figure something out for the rest of it.

Also when the batteries die it gets the bit stuck in the bushing, and can tear it up when you pull out. If you can get your hands on a 1/2" corded drill you will hate life so much less.

Removing old rubber bushings?

Attachment 183802

I can have a whole miata debushed inside an hour. Cut the flanges off the rubbers and use an impact to suck them into a pipe fitting.

Or, ya know, crush them in a press :giggle:

Looking at it now, ought to be able to reassemble them this way too...

Yep, i bet you could get them in that way.

At the risk of sounding retarded:

It appears that the kit already comes with bronze bushings. Is there a binding issue related to the alloy they use?

What kit? Most of them come with a mild steel sleeve inside the poly bushing.

The Energy Suspension kit on 949 that was linked earlier.

Energy Suspension Bushings Miata

I did some quick searching and wasn't able to see the bushing material listed anywhere. Looks bronze-ish to me, but if they are indeed mild steel then bronze replacements would make sense.

You don't actually want a full bronze bushing. That wouldn't work at all, it would crush under torquing. What we do is make a smaller steel sleeve with a thin bronze bushing around it.

Theyre just chromate plated. Im betting they are 1008 or similar after pulling them out of aarons car.

Besides the sleeve crushing issue. Poly to bronze coefficient of friction is no better than poly to steel. It doesnt work that way.

Since drilled holes in Delrin seem to gradually approach nominal size with more effort, "reaming" the bores with a drill press turned out really well. Each drilling pass made the hole a tiny bit bigger, and I eventually got the fit I wanted where the sleeve had a little less resistance to rotation (when dry) than a tight spherical or ball joint.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1458798716


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1458798716

Digging thse zerk caps. Linky?

McMaster-Carr

EDIT: I guess you can't link directly to the product, but the caps are at the bottom of the page. The 1" strap ones fit fine even on the extended zerks.

Pretty much building a McMaster-Car over here.

Sweet, I will be getting zerk caps when I do that. McMaster has everything.

Btw, I build adjustable end links using the 3/8-24 hardware and rod ends they have a McMaster. Two years going strong on a solid 1" front bar set full stiff. Cost around $50 to get enough parts to make 4 of them.

They dont really have enough articulation though. I did the same thing with the PTFE lined ones years ago when 949 ones seemed like they would be out of stock forever and you can see where the spacers have crashed into the plastic on mine.

I did the same thing as X_25, made my own spacers, they have just enough articulation, and i mean just enough, like a degree shy of bind. 4 track seasons, 5k street miles, 0 issues, almost no wear.

I also have some updated info and install tips with a video staring me I have yet to upload, ill try to soon.

I've put about 50 miles on the delrin so far and I love it. Ed and I are going to do some back to back tests, delrin vs poly. But the NVH hasn't gotten any worse at all

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1458895094

in case if anyone decides to diy rear polys.
I've made them myself for a 90A poly, only the inside diameter of a bushing was made to -0,2mm for little bit push fit for a insert.
Everything so far so good

Installed my bronze retro. It's amazing much grip activated

I made my own end links years ago. this was after after using crummy racing beat urathane ones then destroying some from Whiteline and Moss. I used the aluminum rod ends from Mcmaster in the 7/16" size. brass tubing from the hardware store got the Id right for the stock 10mm bolts. I used the rod end tapered washers for 10mm rod ends from pegasusautoracing.com for spacers. these things have been bulletproof compared to anything else I've tried. No slop after 8+ years. They are also lighter.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1458958335

I am just using some washers either side of them for mine. No signs of binding or anything from them. 2 years and more than 200 autocross runs and they are holding up fine.

Retrofit kit not for Superpro
 

A heads-up for anyone running Superpro poly bushings - the poly bronze retrofit kit won't fit. Fortunately I discovered this before Sadfab shipped the kit, and I have now upgraded to the delrin.

In fact, anyone running polys not mentioned by Sean should check the bore diameter before ordering, and make sure ALL the diameters line up with the bronze dimensions.

Thanks Ed, I completely forgot to add that in my Supplemental 1.0.


Poly/bronze has been verified to fit Energy Suspension and Prothane kits. Im almost positive Whiteline uses the same diameters, but im not 100% sure as I have never had a kit in my possession.

I bought some Whiteline bushings for trailing arms in my 323 GTX. The steel sleeves in them were not metric. 3/4" material on one end 1" on the other. I believe Whiteline is an Australian company that has there parts made in Vietnam kind of shocked to see inch sizes. I though SuperPro was Australian as well. Energy Suspension and Prothane are both US companies and I think made in the USA as well.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1459531918

Whiteline W62206 Control arm - lower inner bushing

I must be completely confused. Lol, it happens from time to time.

So Prothane, or ES. All others are on their own and can follow madjaks lead if they choose.

I think they are rounding 19.05 to 19. I got kit W61765 sleeves are listed at 19 and 25.4mm they are most definitely 3/4" and 1".

Straight 3/4" on the camber bolt locations seems like a bad Idea. Even the energy suspension 7/8" ones come out mushroomed on the ends because of the adjustment slot interface lack of contact area.

I'm running 1" sleeves in my camber locations. First track day on them is tomorrow. What do you torque them to Bob?

If I were to guess I would agree with Bob. I bet they are not metric.

for the ends on the bronze bush cam bolt locations. should work perfect.

The Official ARP Web Site | Kits

I don't remember exactly. I do go over factory torque spec. but that's how I keep them from moving.

Thats almost exactly what im using now, except another 0.005" thicker :)

I also got some 1144 rod turned ground and polished from speedy metals. seems like it should have enough yield strength, a nice smooth surface finish, and way easier to machine than most other high strength choices.

I was thinking about your issue with the ES sleeves deforming. To be fair they are made of some sort of cheese steel. The stuff just seams really soft, like I said, I think its 1008. I have 4 new ES sleeves i might go cut on the lathe for some more anecdote.

And yea, 1144 is nice to machine. Small cuts, its like cast iron, larger cuts, its like a harder but non-sticky aluminium.

SS Sleeves w/ Delrin+Urethane Combo
 

Here's what I am working on.

I went with precision ground 416-A stainless for the sleeves. Super easy to machine, great surface finish, and not all that expensive (under $50 for all of the material I needed). I bought 6" of 5/8", 36" of 3/4", and 6" of 7/8" to make everything. Yield strength is 60 ksi which is pretty good, and you could harden them if you had the means (I don't). Took me about 8 hours of work on the lathe to make all this crap though!

Instead of bronze I am using precision Delrin tubing bought from McMaster. It's about 1/4 the cost of bronze, and you can make the bushings one piece because you can cut the tube to whatever length you want. The tolerances are surprisingly good.

I decided to use the ES front upper sleeves as-is, rather than trying to drill out the urethane to fit the 7/8" OD delrin. Later on I might just go with a solid delrin bushing in this location instead. We will see.

I also bead blasted and painted all of my control arms with 2K primer and 2K paint. All of them are tapped for zerks as well. I might cross drill some holes in the delrin bushings to at least have somewhat of a chance of getting grease between the delrin and the stainless. However they are such a close fit and the surfaces are so smooth on each that I doubt the grease would really get in there anyway!

Time to go assemble all of this, and install my brand spankin' new Xidas with spherical tophats at the same time!

Very nice MX. And thanks for justifying my labor :) Seriously, drilling out 4 ft of rod sucks.

This is what I measured off the 3 kits I have in hand. Kind of strange selection of sizes. I don't understand why the energy suspension kit uses a smaller sleeve on the top of the rear knuckle when everybdy else uses the same bushing inboard and outboard on the rear upper and a really odd size for the front upper.

Another thing that is odd if you are making kits for people with V8R rear Uppers. all the bushings in the rear upper are 2mm longer than stock or anybody else. 58mm instead of 56mm. it requires spreading things a little on the chassis to squeez them in. I made them 56 and they were too narrow had to add length otherwise too much squish and friction.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1459734851

More data The Whiteline catalog lists their inboard lower sleves as 19mm which I think might actually be 3/4". Their non adjustable front upper is listed at 22.2mm which I think is 7/8" and they don't list any parts for other locations. their offset front upper uses 3/4"

Another observation based on some Prothane universal bushings I got for another car.

I think Prothane material is significantly harder than all the other manufacturers probably half way to the hardness of delrin.

Sean has both prothane and es bushings. He should compare stiffness

I can do that

Prothane is supposed to be 80 Shore A for all locations except for the front uppers where its 95 Shore A. 95A is about 50R and most delrin is 120R. For comparison.

I can't find any data listed about what they claim hardness is from anybody. All I know is the 19-602 bushings I got for lateral links on my GTX are way harder than any of the ES, Superpro, or Whiteline bushings I have. Feel real close to my 95A wheels on my skate board.