Preferred clutch for 250-ish BHP?
 

What's the general consensus on the correct clutch kit for the job on the first gen clutch replacement for turbo'ed Miatas? We don't want to do this three times in the next 12 months.

Mike

i really (really) liked my ACT HD pressure plate and organic disc. it was the perfect clutch for a street car imo, as long as you dont mind a stiffer-than-stock pedal.

i removed it because i started doing a lot of drag racing, and i also bumped my power output by another 100+hp...

Which year would "first gen" be? 90-93 or 94-97? If it's 90-93, get a 1.8 flywheel and then put a 1.8 clutch kit on. For a little extra performance while you're getting the flywheel resurfaced (either the 1.6 or 1.8 flywheel), get the weight ring turned off. A good machine shop should then balance the entire assembly, mine ground a little material off the pressure plate to balance the flywheel/pp assembly to within 1 gram. Should only add $50-100 to your machining bill when getting the flywheel resurfaced, and has questionable results, but I got it done for free so ha!

There's no one brand that we all choose. We all have different budgets, power levels, and willingnesses to take risks. I went with an eBay F1 clutch because I'm cheap and didn't use crappy eBay throwout bearings. FM clutches are very good buy very expensive, so if you can afford them go for it. A lot of people like ACT clutches. Find the one that meets your power goals and then be smart and go up one step for one you inevitably turn up the boost.

FM level 1 clutch. That's all you need. $350 is too expenive?

That was an assumption from previous experience.

Clutchnet.com

Get a street (stage 1)pressure plate (or for more clamp force Stage 2) that has like 15% more clamping force, BUT with a 4-puck sprung disk, everything will run you around 290.00.

Fm

So FM Level 1 is good enough for around 250hp? Would Level 2 be an overkill?

Check with FM.....

www.flyinmiata.com


"The Level 1 will hold as much torque as the ACT HD, but with a pedal that feels almost like a stock clutch and with a normal take-up. It`s easy to drive with a smooth take-up and is even easier on your thrust bearing and clutch hydraulics! The Level 1 is rated for 318 ft/lb, and is suitable for turbo and supercharged cars with unmodified engines. SFI certified.

1.8 size only, although it can be used on a 1.6 if you also use a 1.8 flywheel."


For some reason there has been a pile of threads/posts from people asking questions that can be answered in about 30 seconds. It tends to turn people off. I found that info from FM in about 1 minute.

Directly from their site, which I'm assuming you've visited, level one will hold 318lb/ft, and the level two will hold 353lb/ft. Looks like HP isn't the number you should be concerned about.

edit: grrr, post sniped, that's how fast and easy this information is to find...

BHP.... :giggle:

+1 ACT HD, or XT if you want some headroom for the inevitable boost increase later on.
http://www.carolinaclutch.com/

You can't go wrong with FM never heard anything bad about them

I have, specifically about a clutch, definitely FMs fault, or at least one of their suppliers, but I am not going to repeat it.

their clutch or the ACT clutches they used to sell?

One of theirs, Level 2.

Don't be pouty. They figured out the problem, fixed it tout-de-suite and sent out replacement parts (along with a little something extra for the trouble). The part is now bullet-proof and they've proved once again that their service is absolutely second to none.

I'm not pouting because I have an ACT clutch, recall free. Whatever. It still sucks for the guy (who I know personally) who has to pull the engine back out of the car to replace the clutch. His time to do the job is worth more than the free replacement parts.

This is not targeted at FM. The point I am making is the ACT costs more than clutchnet, FM, Chinaclutch, whatever, but you put it in once and you are done. Read all the clutch threads and make your own decision. I did.

Who the hell pulls an engine to change a clutch?

You'd be surprised. Lots do it actually. Olderguy did it before too.

Why?

It took me a little over an hour (rusty bolts) to pull my transmission. half an hour to do the rear main and put the clutch in and about another hour to button everything back up again.

I've driven an ACT clutch-equipped Miata extensively, so all the threads in the world won't make me any better informed. Personally, I don't want to build up my left leg muscles quite that much. Unlike the ACT piece, the FM clutch doesn't engage 2 mm off the floor boards and doesn't feel like a Nautilus machine. I'm glad they took the time to develop something more drivable than your "gold standard".

This is only my opinion, of course, but my comments will become something for people to consider when they peruse all the clutch threads extant.

I think anyone who thinks the ACT XT takes too much force to actuate and engages too soon needs to hit the gym and learn how to adjust a clutch. I have an ACT XT in a DD and it is fine. Seriously, I still do not get what all the whining is about clutch pedal force. Would you like some cheese with that?

Fact is, both Clutchnet and FM clutches have had problems. Per the OP, if he wants to do the clutch once and be done with it, IMO, ACT is the way to go.

I'm in on this thread, i will be buying a clutch and hopefully soon a 6 speed, I ran an xtd 6 puck for a while, before i nuked my first trans, i figured out i could chirp 3rd and was a ricer. That contributed to trans failure.

What problems have you heard of with the FM clutch?

Wow Tex, you sure wield a mean cliché. No more, please - my ego will collapse in on itself completely. Members, I retract all my previous comments. The hot tip is to buy an ACT clutch along with a gym membership. Or, if you have a trick knee, swap in an automatic transmission.

There was a manufacturer's error that made the pressure plate fingers slightly too short, which could allow the release bearing to fall through the center of the fingers when the clutch is fully depressed. The fault was found, a new pressure plate has since been produced and it, along with an updated release bearing, was sent out to existing Level 2 customers.

Thus, the problem no longer exists for Level 2 clutches, and never existed for Level 1 clutches (which is the model you should choose, unless you run ludicrous power levels).

Ok that makes sense. I had heard that there was some sort of a problem with the level 2, but they had fixed it. I had just never seen what it actually was.

Canada? I thought FM was in Colorado.

The U.S. is Canada's largest trading partner. I take advantage of that fact from time to time to buy parts I need.

Oh really? I did not know Canada was the biggest trading partner of the U.S.. Thank you very much for that fact which has forever changed my perception of Canadians like you. Up until this point in this thread I was beginning to doubt their worth.

My recommendation is still ACT in case the OP was wondering.

While that's not exactly what I said, it is actually a reciprocal relationship (http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/...p/top0612.html). Thanks for the validation though. We Canadians are forever grateful for your country's collective forebearance in allowing us to exist :facepalm:

250 hp buy a cheap ebay stage 3 clutch and drive on.

BTW your interpretation of that comment was incorrect.

Alex I'll take 'Sarcastic Remarks' for $200 please.

Well you live in Texas, so you would think that. :makeout:

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I'm going to do an FM s2 with the 949 F1 clutch next. Its light, cheap, and supposedly holds.

My sincere apologies. Without an emoticon, I had absolutely no idea of your intention. Can't blame me for misunderstanding when most people south of our border can't even locate Canada on a map.

Lack of Vitamin D due to our northern climes has atrophied my brain, so could you please tell me what "Canada? I thought FM was in Colorado" was supposed to mean? I thought I was the master of the obscure comment, but I may have met my match :bowdown:

I agree. After many, many trips to the US, I still can't fathom how so many people living in WA, OR, and Cali don't know where "British Columbia" is. Like, come on... really? I can point out every US State on a map with ease. I guess I can thank our education system for that.


But... uh, back on subject. My centerforce is good for 260wtq.

I have an XTSS, the pedal force is about the same as required by the stock clutch on my WRX. Perfectly fine for daily driving.

As for where the pedal engages/disengages the clutch, any fool with a Haynes manual and a couple of wrenches can adjust that in about three minutes.

Jeebus...

OK, let's rewind...

Someone early on asked why I didn't search. We did. We're pretty well versed in what FM has for this application, but wanted to see what "other" stuff is out there... I have an ACT clutch in the spec miata we're developing, so I'm aware of their product...

Some of you guys want to piss and moan like children for the sake of pissin' and moaning like children. For those of us who are just seeking relevent and pertinent info, please park the "'tudes" and just provide the info... You can spar with your buddies in PM, no really...

Mike

GTFO, this is no longer your thread. (welcome :loser:)

Oilstain said this more succinctly, but here goes anyway:

First, Your question asked for the general consensus on the preferred clutch for a turbo'd first gen Miata. You never said anything about your knowledge of the popular options, thus steering debate towards lesser-known alternatives. If you can't frame your question properly, you have no one to blame but yourself for the answers you get.

Second, a consensus is reached (or not) through the time-honoured tradition of debate. If you haven't noticed by now, this is one of the, ahem, more colourful boards. Discussions are usually lively and oftentimes acrimonious. If you want a modicum of decorum, there are more mainstream alternatives to frequent.

Third, there is actually a lot of information in this thread about the popular clutch options (some of which I bet you didn't know) plus the name of at least one lesser-known alternative. If you can't spend the time to read through two pages of a thread YOU started in order to cull the info you wanted, then you don't deserve the help.

And now back to our regular programming...

You only have 8 posts. Your comments don't count in the internet world.

^ Only if you knew.

As silly as it is, it's true. Even for myself I noticed it on this site (it's even worse on m.net). I guess it doesn't matter that I have like 4k posts on the GTR forum and 2k on the rx7 forum. And have been building cars since I was 14. It may not be a lot to your guy's standards, but I spend more time actually WORKING on my car rather than posting on the internet unless I have a question. lol..

Thats how it should be.

i spend me time posting here and pretending to know about carz. it is very apparent.

Indeed

I prefer joining forums and asking questions that I should have searched for just to help create internet clutter. Then, I like to have a hissy-fit when people tell me that those questions have been answered already.

BTW Brain, I really wish my cat would do something like that if I put crap on his feet. He just flops over and chews on whatever I attach to him. Where is that gif from?

I have an exedy single disc and 1.8 flywheel and pressure plate for sale. pm if you want it. 200 bucks shipped!

Always sunny in philly.

I spend my time on this forum trying to further meaningfull discusions and improve my car.

you should spend more time at : http://www.grammar-monster.com/index.html

Pot


kettle



black

whatevez

I don't know about this. Some guys pop up from time to time with like 2 posts that go into a build thread so slick it would easily make the front cover of any tuner magazine.

Then again, occasionally guys with 5682 posts that have been an M.net member since 2002 ask, "What's the difference between a turbo and a supercharger? lol. Discuss!"

Post count is not a reliable indicator of car building knowledge, IMHO.

One of the worst efforts of all time to do just that was when Hyper tried to claim he was knowledgeable and wise (despite clear evidence to the contrary) based on his post count. It was pretty laughable and quickly dismissed as a weak argument.

ACT

I've run both the XT SS and the HD. HD engages very similar to stock, and the XT very nice once adjusted. I like mine to engage right off the floor, and I also like the harder pedal pressure. Nothing like trying to grab a gear without unsettling the rear end mid corner when you're jabbing your left foot into a bowl of Jell-O...

I too have driven many stock cars with higher pedal pressure than the ACT XT. Doesn't make it right per se, but just sayin'.

Now get this: Both ACTs I ran, the XT and the HD were used, and came of cars running at the top end of what stock rods can handle. They then proceeded to hold 200whp during my 150mile daily commute and abuse session for over a year, sans resurface, sans new disc.

The XT will actually soon see more life in yet a third turbo Miata.



EDIT: I'm almost convinced that post count is inversely proportional to real world car knowledge in the 200-2000 post range. Above that you're either an expert, a mod, don't have a life, or hustler. Below that your opinion, which may be valid and acceptable in the real world, is not supported by a sufficient body of posts to support it otherwise. No such thing as a resume in forumlandia.