If you want to at least mitigate the "loose spring" issue, you can find a way to ziptie the springs to the top mount so they have the shock body to guide them back to the bottom perches if they ever are rattling loose in there.
In practice, when I asked Ground Control about "loose springs", they said it wasn't really an issue. |
It's nice to see 949 and SD "crossing streams" in here.
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Originally Posted by y8s
(Post 656012)
the top spring is like 10 lb/in just to hold your springs in place under droop. That's a tender. Doesn't do anything to change wheel rate. Only job is to keep spring from rattling. The Xida uses a 150 in/lb helper for example, which is about the same rate as the OEM front springs. It works to keep the tire planted at full extension where the much higher rate main springs runs out of stroke. Tender's are inexpensive, Helpers not so much. |
Its like an allstar team.
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Originally Posted by emilio700
(Post 656396)
To clarify, there are two different types of flat wound secondary springs; Tender and Helper.
That's a tender. Doesn't do anything to change wheel rate. Only job is to keep spring from rattling. The Xida uses a 150 in/lb helper for example, which is about the same rate as the OEM front springs. It works to keep the tire planted at full extension where the much higher rate main springs runs out of stroke. Tender's are inexpensive, Helpers not so much. I've always understood: helper = flat wire coil <10 lb/in to keep springs seated tender = trapezoidal wire coil within normal rate range for creating your own dual / progressive rate suspension profile. And from Eibach's website: A Helper spring is used to prevent the Main spring from becoming loose in the spring seat when the wheel is at full droop. The Helper spring, unlike the Tender spring, has very little spring rate, and therefore has no effect on the suspension characteristics of the vehicle. Up to 50mm of spring-to-perch gap can be covered with the use of a Helper spring. |
Semantics fail.
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Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 656501)
Semantics fail.
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Originally Posted by emilio700
(Post 656514)
Yeah I guess so. Oops. Anyway, the important things is to understand there are two distinctly different functions with the auxiliary springs mentioned in this thread.
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Originally Posted by wannafbody
(Post 656515)
If you have 7 inches of spring and compare a 550# 7 inch spring to a 5 inch 550# spring with a 2 inch tender, which works better, why?
Just different. One stack will be a progressive rate through part of it's stroke, the other will be linear rate all the way through. You decide what will work best for your application. The stack will actually have a step in the rate, softer at first then stepping to a higher rate when the short helper goes to block height. Hyperco FAQ and formula to calculate different combinations. |
Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 656284)
It's nice to see 949 and SD "crossing streams" in here.
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Originally Posted by Thucydides
(Post 656703)
I agree. A bit surprising, but it is nice to see.
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Originally Posted by wannafbody
(Post 656707)
One reason is that Bernie isn't the type of guy to slam 949/AST/or FM in order to sell a set of revalves. And he doesn't seem to be the kind of guy to make people wait 6 months or a year to get a set.
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Originally Posted by wannafbody
(Post 656707)
One reason is that Bernie isn't the type of guy to slam 949/AST/or FM in order to sell a set of revalves. And he doesn't seem to be the kind of guy to make people wait 6 months or a year to get a set.
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True, I've read enough threads where a vendor tried to talk smack about another vendor's product to try to get a sale. Emilio and FM know what it's like to be on the receiving end of that deal.
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This thread is packed full of info and I've read every word of it.
Im ever so curious about the differences between the double and triple adjustable xidas. What kind of things can you adjust with the triples that the doubles can't. Also, Berni or Emilio, have you thought about writing a book? lol |
Originally Posted by flier129
(Post 656769)
This thread is packed full of info and I've read every word of it.
Im ever so curious about the differences between the double and triple adjustable xidas. What kind of things can you adjust with the triples that the doubles can't. Also, Berni or Emilio, have you thought about writing a book? lol |
Triples separate low and high speed compression adjustments. Two concentric knobs on the remotes.
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Originally Posted by emilio700
(Post 656888)
Triples separate low and high speed compression adjustments. Two concentric knobs on the remotes.
Emilio, is there a reason why AST decided to increase compression and rebound together on the singles? Would rebound only have been less expensive to manufacture? |
Originally Posted by wannafbody
(Post 656951)
I'd say that VERY FEW people need triples.
Emilio, is there a reason why AST decided to increase compression and rebound together on the singles? Would rebound only have been less expensive to manufacture? |
Let's break things down on compression and rebound to understand it a little better.
When you compress a spring, energy is being stored by the spring. When the spring extends, energy is being released. The purpose of a shock is to absorb energy, and in return, control resonant frequencies. The reason a shock needs less compression than rebound is because during compression you have energy going into the spring, and on rebound you have energy being released by the spring along, with the resonance. A stiffer spring does not absorb more energy. Why? Because you are not transferring more weight. The weight of the car is the same no matter what spring is in the car. So, since you are not storing more energy, you store the same amount faster/shorter distance. On the other end, you are also releasing the energy faster with a stiffer spring. The reason for more rebound. This is why when you go up on spring rate you also go up on rebound, and down on compression. |
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