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-   -   Springs for Koni and FCM (https://www.miataturbo.net/suspension-brakes-drivetrain-49/springs-koni-fcm-59053/)

IHI 07-12-2011 09:17 AM

Springs for Koni and FCM
 
Hi all,

I have Koni-sports / yellow. I also bought FCM top-mounts. FCM recommended not to put the Koni-sport springs on, but I did. Together with the Koni-Sport-kit springs this does not work. Car is sitting way to low, I even think on the bump-stops as it is really stiff. I tried all the perch-positions. I should have listened.

So I put the stock springs back on. Now laugh....
The middle position was recommended by FCM. So I did that and the car was way to high. So I took the shock out for the fourth time and lowered the perch. Just one day later the springs settled and... It was too low. So I took the shocks out AGAIN and raised the perch. Now it is in the middle position.
That is the fifth time I took the shocks out. It is getting fast now, 1-2 hours to do the 4 shocks on the car... I hate it though ! :vash:

Anyway, I took the car on a trip to France (Europe). Put some luggage in, girlfriend with me. Full tank of gas. When we arrived on the destination the car was as low as it could be. The springs just collapsed. Front and rear. Unloading it didn't do much. But the next morning it was all fine. We took it for a 100 mile tour and again the car sunk back in height. The springs just sag ! Leaving it a night alone, the car raises itself again.

Now I am not all that content with the springs / shocks at all. The bump-stops seem to be just fine, there is no bottoming out. It is progressive in a good way. But when driving on a 40-60Mph straight road the car doesn't seem to compress the spring, it just bounces like it has no springs. Hard to explain but If I have to: it seems like there is not enough mass to make the suspension work. I cannot get my finger on what is happening As I cannot see the wheels moving. I also have to say my other car is a Citroen C5 and has some weird hydraulic suspension system instead of springs. So I might complain about normal behavior. But I have also felt lighter cars (Donkervoort) that had a track setup and were still a whole lot more comfortable.

Anyway, the stock springs have to go as they are to soft for my application and sag on long trips. Either they are old and worn or they are plain to weak.

I am looking at Eibachs Pro kit. Is that any good for my application ? I haven't found the spring rates just yet. I can also turn to the known company's like FM but if there are other springs that are available here in europe that would be more easy (and cheaper).

Does anyone have any recommendations how a decent ride on crapy roads ? in terms of spring rates ? Im I correct that getting the spring rate up would probably make the car more comfortable as it doesn't land on its bump-stops and uses the spring travel better ? Does anyone know at what height the bump-stops begin with the Koni Yellow + FCM mounts ?

Many thanks !

Braineack 07-12-2011 09:40 AM

what you are suggesting is that your metal springs have turned into warm taffy and lost all yield. I doubt it.

stock springs aren't too soft, they were designed for your car obviously...the konis make no difference in this, as thier valving mimics that of stock shocks.


If the car feels bouncy, then that would suggest no SHOCK at all, not spring.


questions:

when you are tightening your lower shock bolt, are you doing it with the suspension loaded?

did you install the springs on the wrong side of the car?

yank 07-12-2011 09:41 AM

Call FCM back and he should be able to hook you up. Im running his SSS springs 450/300 on koni race/sports and the adjustable sleeves. If you have rough roads id go a bit softer. SSS springs are cheep and have a lifetime warranty from what i understand.

IHI 07-13-2011 07:15 AM


Originally Posted by Braineack (Post 748116)
what you are suggesting is that your metal springs have turned into warm taffy and lost all yield. I doubt it.

Me too. But it seems like it a lot. I left the car alone for a couple of days and it moves up.


stock springs aren't too soft, they were designed for your car obviously...the konis make no difference in this, as thier valving mimics that of stock shocks.
Agreed. But the 23 year old material might lost its original specs.


If the car feels bouncy, then that would suggest no SHOCK at all, not spring.
No, it is a different kind of bouncing. It follows the road when it goes up and down instead of pushing the wheel down and pulling it back in. I suspect the road pushes the wheel in, but the spring does not push it back out. That gets the suspension on its bump-stops making it so stiff. The shock is set to its soft setting.


questions:
when you are tightening your lower shock bolt, are you doing it with the suspension loaded?
Wow. Good point there ! The shock-rubbers/mounts might be pre-loaded. I have to fix that.


did you install the springs on the wrong side of the car?

In fact, I did. But I noticed when I was doing it and reversed them. It is an easy mistake to make. The longer spring is the softer one as it has more windings. But as it is longer I first placed it in front. It is good now.


Call FCM back and he should be able to hook you up. Im running his SSS springs 450/300 on koni race/sports and the adjustable sleeves. If you have rough roads id go a bit softer. SSS springs are cheep and have a lifetime warranty from what i understand.
Sounds like a good, common, spring rate. I have dropped FCM an E-mail. But I haven't had an answer yet. Maybe he is sick of my whining about my suspension ;) Allthough the FCM stuff worked out superb. It is the springs that leave me down. I should have bought the whole suspension at FCM. He is right. I am ending up spending more. Not to mention pulling the shocks 10 times before getting it right.

IHI 08-08-2011 03:46 PM

Ok, still don't like the handling of the car. I think this is what it does: it is too soft, the Koni's are jacking the car down to its bumpstops and then the suspension just turn about solid. Weird enough it takes the springs a long time to extend to its normal length.

I need new springs. FCM won't answer, ground-control say they cannot help me because the Koni/FCM combo cannot handle (their) coilovers.
Leaning towards FM spring set, but will they be long enough?
Other option is to go either for GC or Ebay sleeves. But... What kind of spring and what rate?
Any advice on what to buy? Either FM springs or Ebay sleeves + some kind of springs with the correct rate?

Braineack 08-08-2011 03:53 PM

Konis have a crap ton of rebound for no reason. They do resist going back to full extenstion due to the rebound, but it shouldn't take "a long time." with the springs pushing back up on the car, they should go back to full extension instantly.


why don't you take a picture of your rear shock when it's "back to normal" then after a drive and it's sitting too low? I just want to see how it looks.

IHI 08-08-2011 04:53 PM

Good idea. But it might take a while.

Got a third option that might be the one for me:

At summit I can get a Koni sleeve kit for $85. I can add Eibach springs for $80 each. Autch. I will have to fab my own top/spring seporator or get it from FCM.
But how long should the springs be that I need for this?

Braineack 08-08-2011 04:54 PM

depends on the rates.

i needed 7" 400 and 8" 250.

IHI 08-08-2011 05:05 PM

I was thinking of the FM rates: 225 / 325

I can get 8", so it looks to be good. Should I go stiffer? I wan't comfort as good as it gets on this car.

By the way, I have driven it with the Koni springs. Way too low, but consistent. It was on its bumps I think.

concealer404 08-08-2011 05:19 PM

This sounds more like shot shocks than springs to me...

IHI 08-08-2011 05:39 PM

Well... They have less then 5000 miles on them. One shot, ok. Not all. Car is behaving the same on all 4 wheels. One of the koni's leaked oil out of the top adjuster. I do need to check that one. It leaked because I dialed it into full soft but it is better to turn it 10 degrees of its fully closed or open position (or it will start to leak). It does not leak anymore. But I will check it. Either they misvalved it or it is in the springs. I think the springs are to blaim. Also the car doesn't drop in a 10 mile drive, we are talking about a day of driving on bumpy and curved roads.

I don't think it is that weird. It takes time for springs to settle. But if you compress them for a long time it takes time for them to settle back out?

Braineack 08-08-2011 05:52 PM

well leaking adjust is not good dude...

are you sure your shocks have any capacity to push back?

concealer404 08-08-2011 05:56 PM

The thing is... if the springs are going down because they're taffy... i don't see them going back up.

If you can get another set of stock springs, borrow them or something, may as well swap them over and see if the same thing happens. If it does, then you're probably going to have to get those shocks checked out. I wouldn't think that FCM would have messed them up, but everyone makes mistakes at some point, and sometimes it's not even their fault.

I recently had a set of Konis revalved/rebuilt, and my builder had a NIGHTMARE of a time trying to get the things to cooperate due to seal differences, there was a bad batch of seals going around. He rebuilt them literally 3 times in his shop, would throw them on the shock dyno, and they would fail spectacularly.

IHI 08-09-2011 02:47 AM

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The koni's came from a suppplier, not from FCM. They aren't modified. And yes, I have to test the one that has been leaking, or I will just replace it.

But, let's focus on the problem: the springs are to weak for 2 people and luggage in the car anyway. When I am driving alone it seems to be fine but the chassis seem to move too much. I feel like the spring is pushed in and the bumpstop is taking over. It seems like the car is jacking down even on straight roads. I think I just need stiffer springs anyway.

If i'd use the 800.000.001 Koni kit ( http://www.koniracing.com/sleeves.cfm ) I might be able to swap the bottum spacer with the top-spring-perch. If I add a couple of Eibach springs I should be fine. Or ruled out the springs are to blaim, correct? I think the FM /FCM combo will drop the car too much.

Now, would a 325/225 8" long eibach spring set work? Ride height aim is 13-13,5". I cannot order 7"

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1312883037

http://www.koniracing.com/images/Ima...EADEDsmall.JPG

IHI 08-09-2011 04:15 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Actualy, I CAN get 325 7".
Braineack, what is your ride height, what top-mounts do you use and how high are your perches? Does your car compare to my 1989 NA with NA Koni's and FCM tops?

I also have to choose between the 800.000.001 and 002 kit. The 001 kit would act as the lowest support ring for the NB mounts. But the surface is not flat. It might not support the rubber for the topmount enough. The topmount would get loose causing the shock shaft to go up and down in the topmount ? The 002 kit has a flat surface but it is not a ring anymore, it is 15mm thick and takes this space of the top-mount nut. That would do no good. I could mill them out to another proportion like 5mm or so. That would make a better surface for the top-mount and a strong spring top.
Then there would not be an isolator between the spring and the top mount. Would that make the spring very harsh on the car ? That is just what I try to avoid.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1312883870

or

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1312883870

An other problem: the spring now rests on an isolator that rests on the topmount. By getting the Koni upper perch the spring will rest on the FCM rubber that rests against the topmount. I don't think that is a good thing. It will have to take the full weight of the car.
I could mill the part off where the spring normally rests on. Then the top-perch would only be a center-ring to keep the spring in the middle ?

The FCM topmounts / bumpstops are good, but it leaves not a lot of compatible springs to choose of, as they lower the car. Fitting aftermarket springs will get the car on its bumps right away as they are shorter then the stock thing. That is the whole problem really.

Braineack 08-09-2011 07:32 AM

why would you even use the topmount thing?

IHI 08-09-2011 07:51 AM

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Originally Posted by Braineack (Post 758054)
why would you even use the topmount thing?

Here is a pic:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1312890681

How would I have the spring seated / centered, as it is 2 1/4 " inner diameter. Most of the ebay kits use 2,5" inside diameter springs. I did find this at the Koni site:
Nylon 2.25" to 2.5" spring adapters (2 needed). Would that mean I could run 2,5" springs on these sleeves ?

http://static.summitracing.com/globa...29040030_w.jpg

The stock springs are little over 3".

Is there an advantage or disadvantage using a smaller diameter spring ? I run 195/50/15 so space is not an issue.

In other words: the Koni sleeves would fit nicely over the shock body, other sleeves I would have to shim with O-rings. Looks like 2,5" springs can be used.

IHI 08-09-2011 08:37 AM

I have found this:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/234349...-houston-tx-us
Why does GC say their stuff do not work for me ?

Braineack 08-09-2011 08:40 AM

GC said that?

No clue, those are the most common sleeves for the konis....more popular than Koni's own sleeves.

I were buying the Koni sleeves, I'd only get (4) 80.0000.0005 and (4) 80.0000.0006. Then you can get (4) of the 15.29.04.003.0 so you can put 2.5" springs on it.

I wouldn't personally do anything to the mount for a spring isolater, but that's just me.

I also wouldn't buy the Koni sleeves because that adds up to around $70 a corner.


The Ground Control sleeve kit is $350-399 with springs: http://flyinmiata.com/index.php?dept...0%20%201990-97



This is a cheaper option: ALL64146

$35 a corner. The descriptions are all the same for each manufacturer, but the Koni shocks are 42mm OD, it says these are for any 2" (50mm) shock, but that part number is for konis specifically. If anything, you stuff rubber gasketing between the shock body and sleeve, lots of people do that with universal sleeves.

Still at $140 with sleeves alone, you'd need to find $60ea springs to make it worth the cost of just getting the GC kit.

IHI 08-09-2011 09:01 AM

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I did another request on GC to get back on me. This is what they said:


No. Those rates wont work (I mentioned 225/325), the upper mounts are not really compatible with a coilover kit. (There is a better way to do this, but I dont think you want to start all over again).
Our kit would not be a solution to the problems you have described. Thank you.
Maybe he had a fight with his wife last night or so.. I just don't know.
The only thing that could be better in the GC kit is this:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1312894885
That might not be proper for GC. But I would be able to make something nice out of alloy or nylon on the mill to have it proper seated.
As on the spring rates, why would GC those rates won't work ?
The only thing I can think of is that I told them to much. "GC, can I get a kit with 225 / 325 springs for Koni" maybe would have worked out better....

Does anyone knows the difference between the GC NA and NB kit ? This wouls make the most economical and best quality kit anyway.
Thanks !

Braineack 08-09-2011 09:19 AM

I agree with CG, those upper mounts are designed for what you are after, that's why I asked why you'd use them. You have the NB upper mounts, so you just need sleeves. Refer to the part numbers I gave you.

With that being said, that plastic upper spring seat is not nessecary. Hell you could pretty much just glue those Koni 2.25 to 2.5" adapter plates up there if you really cares, or mill them out of a cutting board or alike.

As far as the spring rates? I dunno they have hundreds of springs that you can make work. The skys the limit. But you also need to start saying F/R rates, not R/F, we don't have FWD cars here, stiffer spring goes in the front.


Honestly, I'd just order the spring kit from FM, they are a vendor and the 425/300 rate is very common and plays well with konis. It's possible the FM would be able to order them with different spring rates. I haven't had luck finding just those GC sleeves to purchase seperately.

I'd still have your blown shock looked at. You can have Koni send you a new shock first, through an RMA, and then send your bad shock out to them.

IHI 08-09-2011 10:25 AM


Originally Posted by Braineack (Post 758070)
..................
Still at $140 with sleeves alone, you'd need to find $60ea springs to make it worth the cost of just getting the GC kit.

I think GC is my best bet, also the best bang for buck as they include Eibach springs that are expensive to buy separately. I am thinking of making nylon or alloy adaptors to get a rigid fix instead of O-rings or the motorbike spacer to fit the sleeves to the shock. But that is not the worst part, just enhancements. I was just let down with the GC customer support, don't know why. Now I have seen these pics of GC's in NB mounts I think it can be done without to much trouble.

Haven't bought from FM yet, but they have some more goodies I wan't to have. They also told me to be willing to ship to Europe.
I am going to buy the GC's. Maybe FM will recommend me a spring rate (sorry for confusing the F/R - R/F, lol) or I'll go with the supplied ones. I feel those springs would be too short and for little more I have sleeves + Eibachs. And I am a little done with pulling the shocks to adjust them over and over again.

Just one more thing: order the NA or NB GC's ?

Braineack 08-09-2011 10:30 AM

they honestly might be a little short. IIRC it's a 6" F and 7" rear spring. You might want to email or call FM and see what they recommend, as a 7" 250 rear spring would have been too short for me. The NB kit might be slightly longer springs.

IHI 08-09-2011 11:01 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Thanks. I have asked them. They might read along as I have sent them this link.

Now this:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1312902079
WTF....

I like this:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1312902079
I can make that. Would like that on both sides of the sleeve.

I do not like this at all...
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...TycsONzrqw&t=1

I do like the idea of a bigger diameter coil.

Would the GC on the Miata keep the springs seated on full droop ? If not, it would not be road-legal here.

Thanks for all the support Braineack !
FM is on Summer camp. Err...

I think this is why GC is letting me down on the topmount:

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/5357/img0075qj.jpg

Properly centering the spring and sleeve cannot be a bad thing....

Braineack 08-09-2011 11:34 AM

no, I think the problem there is the guy was still using the lower mount, so the sleeve sat up higher than it needed to. Plus using a collar that was wider than needed. The GC sleeve should rest directly on the shock circlip, so it will sit a lot further down. It was also installed upside down, the .5" area of non-threads should be towards the top.

Also, there should be material stuffed between the shock and sleeve to keep it centered like I stated before. But you can see the Koni sleeve is smaller diameter so it should fit snug.


As far as the springs being unseated, that's all about choosing the correct length of spring.


what in the second pic are you saying you like?

if you want to use larger springs, just make buy those koni adpater rings, or make your own, you just need a flange with a wider OD to fit on the lock ring that will kepe the spring centered.

IHI 08-09-2011 11:54 AM

I like that alloy adaptor to get the thicker sleeve on the Koni.
FM is not there for a week, GC does not wan't to talk to me again, I guess I will just have to wait before I can spend anything on this car....
I was just curios what diameter sleeve you would get if you order them for Koni. Will you get the larger ones with the 2,5" springs and some adaptor to make it fit, or do you get the narrow ones for Koni with the 2.25" springs....

Anyway, I have it all just about figured out now. The difficulty now is to get the parts, lol.


Here is some text FM put on their website for the GC's:
NOTE: Koni and KYB kits are 375lb/in F, 250 lb/in R spring rates.
That is pretty close to my initial thoughts. I can go with that.

soviet 08-09-2011 12:03 PM

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I have the same thing. Koni Ground Control sleeves with 2.5" 7" eibach springs.

Braineack 08-09-2011 12:05 PM


Originally Posted by IHI (Post 758119)
I like that alloy adaptor to get the thicker sleeve on the Koni.

that's just the koni NB lower perch mount thing. that have nothing to do with the springs.

oh i see what you're saying.

I'd use the thinner sleeve and get the koni 2.25" to 2.5" adpaters and rest them on the lock nut. they are like $3 each. honestly there is more selection with the eibach 2.25" springs. can you just purchase the sleeves seperately? I could never find them.

IHI 08-09-2011 12:55 PM

I found a topic somewere that GC would ship sleeves for $119 shipped to the lower 48.

I think FM and GC are selling the smaller diameter sleeve for the 2.25 spring. Selling the 2.25 springs with the 375/250 rating along. Now that would be fine. If the springs are no good I could swap to 2.5" springs with those koni adaptors (from summit).

I'll just wait for an answer from either FM or GC.

IHI 08-09-2011 04:50 PM


Originally Posted by soviet (Post 758122)
I have the same thing. Koni Ground Control sleeves with 2.5" 7" eibach springs.

Do you know why it occured?

IHI 08-10-2011 02:04 AM

GC got back on me:

They use the smaller sleeve for the Koni's, together with the 2,5" springs.
Mark says the +99 springs are shorter, the +90 are the longer ones.
I can choose the springrate but 375/250 is a populair (soft) choice. Sounds good to me.
I like his answers.
I think I have to specify the length of the spring to get it right.
Recommendations?
Braineack, you have F/R 6"/7" that is on the short side, i should go with 7"/8" or 6"/8"?
I do like an even leveled car (not the nose down, rear up). Ride height will be 13"
If I mess up with the spring length, I could make a new higher or lower perch slot.

I have measured the ride height: it is 13" spot on. It gives me the same height on the front as the rear. People tell me it is better to get the car flat or rear a little down as it enhances the roll center of the car. Does this count for the Miata too ?
If I have more info on the spring length's I can order the GC's. No doubt that I will make some nice adaptors for the top seating of the spring. I don't wan't the perch to look like the previous pics, harmless or not...

I do like to videotape the wheels wile driving. This would give me good information about what the suspension does. I will ask Koni to replace the damper that leaked.

Why does a shorter spring binds quicker then a longer spring ?

IHI 08-10-2011 04:14 PM

This "Mark" guy of GC is impossible. I asked him a couple of questions like a shipping quote, if I could get 8" rear springs, etcetera. Also I asked how the sleeves got worn out by the spring as in the pics I found.

All he answered was:

"The damaged sleeves are caused by stupid design upper mounts, and using overpriced bumpstops without even checking the rate."

I don't think he will actually let me buy parts from him. Either not a nice guy or has a lot on his mind, I just don't know. I'll have to wait till FM's Camp is over.

Braineack 08-10-2011 04:51 PM

this dude knows nothing.

ScottFW 08-10-2011 05:51 PM

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GC customer service is renowned for being less than great and it was a motivating factor in me buying Koni sleeves and used springs and piecing it together myself. Blaming it on the bump stops? Really? I can see how not having anything to center the spring on the upper mount may be a problem, especially if the GC sleeves come right up to the top of the shock body. The Koni sleeves don't, which may help keep them out of harm's way if the spring flexes a little bit laterally. My setup has no issues with rubbing.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1313013079

I use a urethane upper spring isolator for my 2.5" springs with FCM (NB style) upper mounts. Energy Suspension part number 9.6103G. Little bit of Gorilla Glue to hold it onto the shock mount. The isolator will cut down on NVH and also keep the spring from moving around very much when the suspension is unloaded, which may or may not be an issue depending on your spring length and ride height.

IHI 08-11-2011 01:20 AM

Looks very clean. However, Koni sleeveset costs $80 per corner? Or are these prices for 4 corners ? That is about the same you pay for GC + springs. But this "Mark" guy is opening up all options again.

What springrates, ride height and spring lenghth are you using? Do you have any advise on this?

If the $80 is for 4 corners, I would have to add 4x $6 for the 2,25"-->2,5" spings and 2x $7 (sold per pair, need 4).
Also I need springs, those are $80, need 4, totals at $320
All together it gets up to:
80+24+14+320 = $438 for the Koni / Eibach / ES combo

Slightly more then the GC, but that won't let me down.

If I'd use QA1 springs, the 2,5"/250/7" and a 2,5"/350/7"would cost me $40 each.
That makes 160 for the springs, total would be $280 for the Koni / QA1 / ES combo.
The downside on this is there are less available sizes for the QA1's, if you wan't a 8" spring you pay $60 and 6" is unavailable.

Summit's own springs are even cheaper, $35 each, but availability is only good in 7".

As the springs are the weak component in my suspension at the moment, I am not willing to go cheap here. I have set my mind on Eibachs.

The only thing I need to figure out is the length of the spring.

Now, my car is at the right height. The coilovers start just a little higher then the perch is.

Rear coil:
From topmount to lowest spring perch I have 17cm / 6.7 inches
Weight of the car is 2000Lbs-2200Lbs.
The Miata has a 50:50 ratio.
That would make the spring compress with 500-550 Lbs.
If I rate the spring at 250 in the rear, it would compress 2-3 inch.
If I wan't to get to the right ride height I would have to get springs that are in the middle of the perch at 13" ride height, the Koni's are 4" but only 3" is usable. So I need to get 1,5" off the 6,7", makes 5,2".
If the spring compresses 2 inch, I would need a 7". If it compresses 3", I would need a 8". I think both will do.
I can see 7" being on the short side.


Front coil:
From topmount to lowest spring perch I have 18cm / 7 inches
Weight of the car is 2000Lbs-2200Lbs.
The Miata has a 50:50 ratio.
That would make the spring compress with 500-550 Lbs.
If I rate the spring at 375 in the front, it would compress ~1,5 inch.
If I wan't to get to the right ride height I would have to get springs that are in the middle of the perch at 13" ride height, again the Koni's are 4" but only 3" is usable. So I need to get 1,5" off the 7", makes 5,5".
If the spring compresses 1,5 inch-2 inch, I could use a 7". I think a 6" would be to small.

Anyway, If it turns out to be to tall, I can always make another slot for the perch-clip.

Also a longer spring keeps me better from coil-binding ? I think this is what I have in the rear. The coils are very close to each other. The coils wire is ~10mm thick, the space between the coil-wires is ~7mm, the front is slightly better, 10mm between the windings. If they are regressive in spring rate due to age or design, this would cause my initial problems.

By the way, the Koni springs from the kit are 10,5" in front and 12" in the rear. I cannot use those as the lower the car too much, bringing it to ~11,5-12" in the front. The rear seems to be fine. But can't cross a bridge, speedbumps without hitting the framerails and I even have hit the subframe twice. It is just plain stipid. These coils aren't made for the FCM / NB topmounts though. But clearly their springrate is near stock if they compress from 10,5 to ~6,5" = 4" When pressed with 550 Lbs per spring they are less then 140 lbs/inch ?
For the rear that would be 12" to 6,5" = 5,5" When compressed with 550 Lbs per spring this makes... 100lbs/inch..
This does make sense. The Koni springs felt super stiff. But probably because the car was on all its bumps all the time. In fact... there was barely any suspension travel going on.

The more I think of it, the clearer it gets. When you lower the car you should compensate with spring rate or you will end up on the bumpstop. If you upgrade your shocks, you will need stiffer springs to overcome the added rebound or the car will jack down a lot (Koni's are "famous" for doing that). The only thing I cannot understand is that people advice to go on stock springs with Koni's and FCM topmounts and set their ride height at 13". There is no way this is going to work out fine at all. Maybe on a flat road, but a more bumpy road will get the car on its bumps and the springs cannot overcome the rebound fast enough, making the car stiff and giving the suspension a strange double behavior (from weak to very stiff). Correct me if I am wrong. But I also have to say that I am very sensitive on chassis behavior. If I drive a car for the first time I always pay attention on how good (or bad) the steering is, how it is planted on the road, what it does on long and short bumps in the road. The Miata is not there where I wan't it yet.

Please feedback !

ScottFW 08-11-2011 11:42 AM

^^^I only read the first 10% of that novel of yours.

No the Koni sleeves are not $80 a corner. Don't know where you saw that price, but shop around. King Motorsports has the sleeve, lower perch, and 2.5" adapter for $45.80 a corner which is about what I paid 2-3 years ago. Yeah, that's about $180 but where the real savings comes from is buying used springs. 7" 450 lb QA1s for $35 shipped (for the pair) and 7" 300 lb Eibachs were about $50 for the pair. Ebay and the sccaforums classifieds are good sources for used springs. The Energy upper isolators I posted about before were about $20 for the 4. That's under $300 total.

My ride height averages around 12.5" to the fenders. It was corner balanced with my ballast in the car so there's a little variation among the corners when I measure it empty. Can't go much lower and still clear speed bumps.

IHI 08-11-2011 11:51 AM

That's ok. Lol... Just one slight problem.. I am in Europe. Shipping will be $120 per package... So shopping around for used stuff may turn out to be more expensive then finding one company that is able to sell me all the parts in one box.
Koni sleeves gets more expensive after all. Darn...

IHI 08-15-2011 08:23 AM

As GC never responded back on me I decided to configure my own Eibach / Koni coilover sleeveset based on reveived info in this topic and on the www. Ordered at Summit. Should be packed and sent on 31 august. Will install it this winter. I'll post some updates in this topic.
Thanks for all the support folks !

Seefo 10-27-2011 07:01 PM

btw, for anyone who randomly finds this thread, you can buy the 2.25" koni sleeves from many honda parts sellers online for $44.

Scroll to the bottom (even has the 2.5" adapter for cheap):
http://www.kingmotorsports.com/m-26-...aspx?pagenum=2

IHI 10-28-2011 02:06 PM

Thanks. I got a set of sleeves ans eibach springs from Summit.

IHI 01-11-2014 07:23 AM

It has been a while.
The Mazda ended up in a corner of the workshop, had a turbo fitted and meanwhile I bought a Porsche Boxster to do the holiday trips with. A bit more comfort. Great car, but I miss the little tweakable and agile Mazda.
So I picked up the good work and decided to get the Mazda back on the road.
I took out the Koni shocks and they are shot. 2 leaked and had air bubbles floating trough the valves (the rear). Not too bad, but leaving them on and it will get worse.
One of the front shocks is broken though. The adjuster is stuck. And the amount of rebound is INSANE. You cannot pull it out and it takes a couple of hours to have it pushed back by itself. This is more or less what I felt, the front was jacked down and making the whole car feeling super stiff. I don't know why I did not notice it was just one shock that was shot, but it might be the ARB that helped out.
Anyway, I requested a new set from Koni.
Let's see what their warranty is good for.

Now I have this set of threaded sleeves and springs that will get on to the new Koni's.
Front: 375/7"
Rear: 250/8"
The question is this:
If I fit these and put the ride height at about 12.5-13", would I have to preload the springs ? I don't wan't the springs to get loose as the car wil fail for its annual technical checkup.
In that case I would need helper springs. Could anyone having a similar spring setup advise please ?
I wan't to put this set together once I have new Koni's, and I wan't to have it right the first time, this time..

Second question: Why is there a nut welded to the front shock body ?

IHI 01-17-2014 01:34 PM

To answer my own question:
Yes, I do need helper springs.
At 13" ride height the springs are loose for a good 2".
This way the car will fail it's annual technical checkup.
And I have a little problem.
I calculated I needed 7" front and 8" rear spring.
This would work. But not much spare room in the sleeve.
I probably cannot get the car much lower as the perch is at its lower position on the sleeve.
I might even need to rework the shock to lower the sleeve another inch, depending on the size of the helper / tender combo.
But then it would be close to the upper A arm. Depending on the helper spring compressed size this would make little room for further lowering the car.
Why in the world is there so much droop in this car. I would trade some droop for bump travel. And I am talking 13" here.
I might just put the whole set for sale if I get new Koni's and buy some Xida's.
Are the Xida's shorter and offer more bump travel over the Koni's ?


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