Joe that's very close to what i said, so does that put me in with everyone?

Rich people who don't give a fuck about the money or the car they just want to get rid of the car will let you test drive a car alone. One of my buddies and I were looking for WRX's in the Northern VA area (lots of money up there) and of the 3 cars we looked at, all of them let us take the car out alone.

Better step off. I've never joyridden a used or new car. But maybe you just look untrustworthy -- I've never, ever been unable to test drive a potential purchase alone. Every single time, I've test driven it by myself or with just my wife along. One of the purchases, I asked the seller if I could take an extended (30+ minute) drive as it was an older Merc and I wanted a friend to look it over with me...he agreed and wouldn't even take my keys as security.

I'm not just talking about myself here. And I definitely don't look like some broke punk kid if that's what you were implying. My parents, both well over 50, went to test drive a prius, pulled up on a 2004 Lexus LS430 and the salesman still wouldn't let them take out a car alone. Same thing happened to my neighbor who purchased a focus. Same thing happened to my brother with a dodge ram he purchased.

Maybe its a CA thing though, to be honest. I've heard from many friends in other states that they just walk into a dealership, take the keys, and take a car for a test drive by themselves. Around here that's unheard of.
Same for anyone selling anything on craigslist or other classified ads.

I guess people are just WAY more trusting in other states?

Not implying anything. Just curious why I can always get a private test drive and you never can. I'm 28 with a scruffy beard and rogueishly handsome features.

Possibly.

you're 3 years older and thound just thuper:giggle::magna:

easiest way, dump the clutch like your launching it and have someone watch the rear tires.

:facepalm:
fail

i thought open diff didnt lock up and only one spins.


- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPRvzgdNAW8




i also saw this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDOcWR4_Uhw

You can easily spin both with an open diff. If both tires have the same amount of traction in a straight line both will spin MOST of the time. With a torsen both will spin ALL of the time.
The big differences between the two are realized more in cornering and not straight line.

whipping the rear end around is a way to tell because the differential in traction between the two tires is significant enough that an Open diff is pretty much guaranteed to spin the inside tire.

Here's a theoretical test I was thinking about...would it work? Obviously, it's dangerous and you'd risk damaging the car if you actually tried it:

Jack one up rear corner, place jackstand so only one rear wheel is in the air. Start car, 1st gear, let clutch out slowly. If wheel in the air spins by itself, car has open diff. If both wheels spin (ie, car moves forward and falls off jackstand), car has LSD.

I'm surprized no one mentioned it but call your local dealer with the VIN# and they can tell you in 30 sec if it was equipped with a torsen. You can email MAZDA as well but that took forever when I did it a year ago. Attached is a chart I have for the NA's can't remember where I found it.

Only works on cars you know for a fact are unmodded.

No. When a wheel comes off the ground in a torsen it acts like an open. It needs SOME resistance on both wheels at all times.

Most cars you will see today will still be what they came from the factory with. If not generally the owner will know and try to use it as a selling point.

So, if your suspension setup was such that lifting the inside rear tire was possible, a Torsen wouldn't deliver power to the outside rear tire? I know that's an extreme case, but I'm curious.

There IS INDEED a way to make this test work...

Put it up on one jackstand so that only one rear wheel is barely off the ground, Make sure that corner is supported by the A-Arm and NOT by the Frame (So that when the car rolls off the jackstand / block of wood / etc., it doesnt cause damage to anything)

PARTIALLY APPLY THE HANDBRAKE (25-50%)

Then let out the clutch in first gear.

If the car lurches forward / pulls itself off the lift support, then it has a TORSEN

If the car remains in place, with the lifted wheel spinning against the handbrake friction, then it is open.

This is mostly correct - however, torque IS applied to the outside tire to the extent that the torsen attempts to compensate for the inertia of the lifted wheel as the lifted wheel accelerates.

It's not much, but it is definitively infinitely better than the response of an open differential with a lifted wheel which provides zero torque to the grounded wheel.

If Torsens didn't act like Opens when a wheel was off the ground, I suspect Clutch differentials would be nearly extinct.

True.

Learn sumpin' every day. Thanks!