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V8R X-Lite control arms: some assembly required
I figured I would put this info out there to make the arms easier to use for those who choose to buy them, and provide some honest feedback for those considering buying.
TIP #1 (RUCA): the OEM pivot bolt does not fit at the outboard location, as the machined clevis is thicker than the OEM arm. Solution: M10 x 90mm bolt and matching M10 x 1.5 nut. https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a1e81b45d3.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...d222875220.jpg |
TIP #2 (RUCA): the roll center adjustment does not actually adjust roll center.
http://media.beliefnet.com/~/media/p...jpg?as=1&w=400 |
TIP #3 (RUCA): The arm hits the body much earlier than the stock arm, before the tire even makes contact. Use the not-roll-center "unibody clearance adjuster" to improve this radically. This will get you to full tire contact for most setups, and a little massaging of the contact zone on the body can make some breathing room.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...124179e443.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...e0db663c97.jpg |
TIP #4 (FUCA): The arm contacts the unibody before tire rub with 225/45R15. Contributing to this is the fact that the rod end is offset from the midplane of the arm, presumably to shift the bump/droop limits of the range of motion of the spherical bearing serving as the UBJ pivot.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...371b65ddd1.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...0517192af4.jpg |
that's terrible. seriously terrible
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TIP #5 (FUCA): Flipping the arm (logo down) radically increases body clearance. However, it moves the UBJ spherical bearing closer to bind at full bump relative to the stock orientation. A number of solutions can be used to correct for this, including shimming the height of the spherical bearing. However, I chose to substitute a true high-misalignment spacer (a modified version of a QA1 SN12-68) and an AN-7 bolt for the stock SHCS + counterbored, lower misalignment spacer.
Note in the first photo that the head of the SHCS had to be turned to fit the top spacer. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...50dc78637f.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...2c0ff9acde.jpg |
TIP #6 (FUCA): Maybe throw some loctite retaining compound on the UBJ spherical.
Stock fit (turn headphones to max for full effect): TIP #7 (FUCA): Also maybe get steel jam nuts to replace the aluminum jam nuts for the rod ends. |
Tire clearance when
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4816f2890a.jpg |
Originally Posted by afm
(Post 1500561)
TIP #6 (FUCA): Maybe throw some loctite retaining compound on the UBJ spherical.
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Originally Posted by EO2K
(Post 1500564)
Hey @afm, what flavor loctite do you recommend on that ubj spherical?
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TIP #7 (FUCA): If you use the stock hardware, make sure the SHCS head sits fully in the counterbore of the spacers. Turning the bolt heads is a fun drinking activity but maybe not a good solution.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...31c40f0d5f.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...e9ce2f5fd3.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...d081e650b0.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ffa9d9779a.jpg Pictured: essential suspension installation tools. |
Originally Posted by EO2K
(Post 1500564)
Hey @afm, what flavor loctite do you recommend on that ubj spherical?
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V8R is fully refunding you fort this utter garbage . Right???!!!
Originally Posted by concealer404
(Post 1500565)
Ask your pro suspension builder.
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Originally Posted by afm
(Post 1500549)
TIP #2 (RUCA): the roll center adjustment does not actually adjust roll center.
http://media.beliefnet.com/~/media/p...jpg?as=1&w=400 --Ian |
Positive note: FUCA clearance like a hotdog in a hallway!
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...8c56562e6e.jpg |
THAT MAKES EVERYTHING WORTH IT
:likecat: |
Those aren't Xidas. I deem that irrelevant.
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does it fit with extended bj's doe?
also TIP # 69: this is the ONLY way of communication with v8r. please do not attempt futile outdated ways like telephone and email, you have been educated https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a73a585f45.jpg TIP # 69.5: the pigeons should all be routed to Concealer404's house, NOT Florida. |
Originally Posted by concealer404
(Post 1500582)
Those aren't Xidas. I deem that irrelevant.
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Originally Posted by afm
(Post 1500591)
Yeah, I think they're Racelands or something. Came free on my car.
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6 Attachment(s)
Are yours really old? Are you the original purchaser? He sent out updated components. The short bolt version was replaced with a long bolt version.
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2 Attachment(s)
The cut size and dimension of this part in your pictures looks very different from the one I have. Yours has a lot more material outboard of the spherical bearing. The bearing is very snug in the one that I've got, too.
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Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 1500751)
Are yours really old? Are you the original purchaser? He sent out updated components. The short bolt version was replaced with a long bolt version.
This thread is meant to be a “missing manual” for people installing the arms. |
Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 1500759)
The cut size and dimension of this part in your pictures looks very different from the one I have. Yours has a lot more material outboard of the spherical bearing. The bearing is very snug in the one that I've got, too.
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Gotcha.
I wonder why they have a 12pt bolt head on mine and a Allen head on yours. Mine's from this year. |
Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 1500779)
Gotcha.
I wonder why they have a 12pt bolt head on mine and a Allen head on yours. Mine's from this year. Probably because the first ones sent out this year didn’t fit at all. I’ve missed 6 track events and a whole season of autocross thanks to this crap. |
Stupid question considering all the work to make them "work" but what was the weight savings?
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Originally Posted by hector
(Post 1502717)
Stupid question considering all the work to make them "work" but what was the weight savings?
“Not with the headache” pounds. |
bob ripped the kingpin out of one of the lowers last weekend. spooky.
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...34&oe=5C61C975 |
That looks like a fabricated steel arm.
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Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 1504556)
That looks like a fabricated steel arm.
Nope. Initial reports are he pulled it straight through the aluminum collar area that retains it in place - obviously the thinnest spot, and it just failed on the track sending him off. Could have been worse. |
Is that powder coated?
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Not sure. Looks like it. Annealed maybe in the oven.
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Originally Posted by Dietcoke
(Post 1504733)
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...06&oe=5C4E0DFA
Nope. Initial reports are he pulled it straight through the aluminum collar area that retains it in place - obviously the thinnest spot, and it just failed on the track sending him off. Could have been worse. |
Originally Posted by Dietcoke
(Post 1504550)
bob ripped the kingpin out of one of the lowers last weekend. spooky.
https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...34&oe=5C61C975 |
Originally Posted by unk577
(Post 1504948)
Who owns the Exocet?
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Nothing in this entire thread makes me think that the product being described isn't vastly worse than the OEM part for all practical purposes.
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Eww, heim ends in bending.......no thank you
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 1505018)
Nothing in this entire thread makes me think that the product being described isn't vastly worse than the OEM part for all practical purposes.
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Originally Posted by Bronson M
(Post 1505076)
Eww, heim ends in bending.......no thank you
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Originally Posted by themonkeyman
(Post 1504840)
Why would they deaign an arm that doesn’t use the Miata ball joint? It has ample attachment points and has proven itself pretty robust. Plus it would prevent a situation like this from happening. |
More info out of Bob today.
"This is what I found when I took it apart. On the left is the kingpin. On the right is the end of the arm, and the socket. It all looks intact and in good shape" https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...90&oe=5C1CFDC9 " The good on on the left, and the failure on the right. There is a ball inside of a race installed into the machined pocket in the arm. The king pin fits down through the center of the ball. That small cap screw holds the gold colored cap in place, and retains the king pin. " https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...ae&oe=5C461D89 "Failure on the right. The cap screw broke just under the cap, allowed the king pin to come out of the socket. The entire weight of the car is dependent on that one cap screw. I tried to get the other cap screw out, but I couldn't. Maybe they were over tightened?" https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...dd&oe=5C4B7456 |
That LBJ uniball adapter is very reminiscent of the “early version” UBJ adapters that I believe @TNTUBA broke. For the upper arm at least, that was superseded by a new version with a larger bolt going through both the bearing and the upright using a tapered spacer. As shown in the first post, fear of similar issues and setup problems led me to DIY my own, more robust UBJ adapters (below). I can’t imagine running that LBJ adapter as pictures; it’s a bummer that it broke on him before he became aware of potential issues :( |
I broke an upper ball joint. I used the lowers for about half a season then got around to measuring the roll centers.....which were actually worse than stock. They made me some longer lower ball joint pins to correct the roll centers, but then the control arm it's self hit the brake disk. I abandoned the front lowers but still use the billet V8R Front uppers and their tubular steel rear uppers and lowers.
I am changing spindles this winter and a few other things. I was thinking about revisiting the front lowers...but I'm not 100% sure now. Ball joints fail. I've seen stock ones, extended ones, OEM and parts store ball joints fail...that's what they do and why you need to replace them early and often |
I realize this thread is a bit old, but are the tubular arms from V8R as bad as the x-lite ones? I thought they were pretty well regarded for making quality stuff, but this thread has me wondering. Anyone care to school the newb?
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7 Attachment(s)
They went through couple of different variants on the steel design as time went on. I don't know of any issues. Tony Montana just built his car with them.
Here's another car I've seen with some of their stuff on it. |
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