View Poll Results: Weld my open Miata diff?
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll
Welding an open Miata diff?
03-21-2009, 11:25 AM
#42
If I find the parts I need to upgrade, I'll weld it and see how it handles, might just drive it like that until it fails.
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03-21-2009, 11:58 AM
#43
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Indianapolis, IN
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Since our young friend is not old enough to know the answer to your question, I will fill you in. Way back, a long time ago, that area was in the boonies.
In the late 60's they built the "Florence Mall" (which is still there), and the water tower to provide the new sprawl with H2O. The water tower used to read "Florence Mall". About 20 years ago, some sort of riff happened between the Water Co and the Mall, and the Mall wasn't going to pay to advertise on the water tower any longer. So instead of painting the entire tower, they changed the one letter from M to Y, hence "Y'all". It is the stupidest thing they could have done.
KMag
In the late 60's they built the "Florence Mall" (which is still there), and the water tower to provide the new sprawl with H2O. The water tower used to read "Florence Mall". About 20 years ago, some sort of riff happened between the Water Co and the Mall, and the Mall wasn't going to pay to advertise on the water tower any longer. So instead of painting the entire tower, they changed the one letter from M to Y, hence "Y'all". It is the stupidest thing they could have done.
KMag
Originally Posted by wikipedia
In 1974, the Virginia Erection Co. was contracted to paint the words "Florence Mall" to advertise the forthcoming Mall style shopping center - something new to the region. Mayor CM "Hop" Ewing was informed in July of 1974 by the Bureau of Highways that the signage was in violation of the law, as there was a restriction on how tall a sign promoting a business could be.
Many solutions were suggested, including everything from the obvious repainting of the tower, to covering the structure with a large tarpaulin. No inexpensive options seemed available.
During a brainstorming session with other civil staff, Ewing devised the idea of removing the vertical lines at the sides of the M in MALL to make it a Y; becoming Y'ALL. Ewing himself admitted at the time that it was a "corny" solution, but cost effective. The city paid $472 to the W.T. Marx Company of Cincinnati, Ohio to make the changes; whereas a complete repaint would have been nearly three times as much. With the completion of the modified paint job, the landmark was born.
Many solutions were suggested, including everything from the obvious repainting of the tower, to covering the structure with a large tarpaulin. No inexpensive options seemed available.
During a brainstorming session with other civil staff, Ewing devised the idea of removing the vertical lines at the sides of the M in MALL to make it a Y; becoming Y'ALL. Ewing himself admitted at the time that it was a "corny" solution, but cost effective. The city paid $472 to the W.T. Marx Company of Cincinnati, Ohio to make the changes; whereas a complete repaint would have been nearly three times as much. With the completion of the modified paint job, the landmark was born.
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03-21-2009, 07:41 PM
#48
Its been pretty well documented that open differentials can produce equal times to welded differentials in drag racing. In the Ford Focus, a front wheel drive vehicle, race teams went back to an open differential when the torsen provided sub-optimal launch. The torsen is really best for turning, and equalizing grip where total transfer of power can occur when a lateral acceleration induced skid occurs. In an open differential the wheel with the least traction gets the power so you just spin out, but if you keep the tires right at the limit of slip limit on the track where both tires should have equal traction and wheel speed, you will see no difference vs a spool/welded diff.
Also welding the differential completely removes the intended heat treatment of the gears. They will become superhard in some areas, and super soft in others. It also changes the strength of the material. Bottom line, you'd be lucky if it lasted 5000miles of abuse especially with it being used all "Tokyo Drift" style.
Also welding the differential completely removes the intended heat treatment of the gears. They will become superhard in some areas, and super soft in others. It also changes the strength of the material. Bottom line, you'd be lucky if it lasted 5000miles of abuse especially with it being used all "Tokyo Drift" style.
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03-22-2009, 06:36 PM
#49
The way I see it, when adding more power to a car, there's a limit at which that car at it's stock setup is able to efficiently use that power (ie. put it to the pavement) and a stock open miata diff is no different in this situation.
There's a reason you cannot buy a Z06 with an open diff.
There's a reason you cannot buy a Z06 with an open diff.
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03-22-2009, 07:54 PM
#51
The way I see it, when adding more power to a car, there's a limit at which that car at it's stock setup is able to efficiently use that power (ie. put it to the pavement) and a stock open miata diff is no different in this situation.
There's a reason you cannot buy a Z06 with an open diff.
There's a reason you cannot buy a Z06 with an open diff.
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03-23-2009, 08:17 AM
#52
I wouldn't say it unless I knew it. When does a differential start working? When tires have have already slipped. When have you failed at the drag strip?? When your tires have actually slipped.
Generally when you race you compensate for time lost in slippage by feathering the clutch from a high RPM position about .1 second ahead of the green. You should just pop throught the light on green, as it hits, and your tires should be LOCKED together not because of a fancy differential but because your delivering power to the ground. If your tires are peeling at all your E.T. is literally going up in smoke. It takes energy you don't have to spare, and ESPECIALLY to the 60 foot line.
Now like I said, if your doing it right, your differential should not be doing anything else but transferring power to both wheels equally whether you have an open, welded, torsen, or spool.
Generally when you race you compensate for time lost in slippage by feathering the clutch from a high RPM position about .1 second ahead of the green. You should just pop throught the light on green, as it hits, and your tires should be LOCKED together not because of a fancy differential but because your delivering power to the ground. If your tires are peeling at all your E.T. is literally going up in smoke. It takes energy you don't have to spare, and ESPECIALLY to the 60 foot line.
Now like I said, if your doing it right, your differential should not be doing anything else but transferring power to both wheels equally whether you have an open, welded, torsen, or spool.
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03-24-2009, 01:14 AM
#53
i love the crazy responses this question is generating. it has some people going **** crazy with stories of death and dismemberment at the hands of a welded diff!!! just awesome!
let me just say, i want an lsd. i really want a 1.5 way clutch type, but since i can't afford one, i welded (had it done) my diff. and have made my car faster and more fun in all types of situations and competitive events. unlike most of the crazies posting on here, i actually have personal experience to draw from rather than lame hearsay. if you turbocharge your car, your gonna need it. if not, you really don't.
i auto-x my car and dropped 1 sec. from open diff. it would not hook up at all coming out of the corners until i was going straight. the only place the diff. is a negative is in super tight turns (like a box turn) even so, i made up more time getting on the gas earlier.
i have done an scca rally-x event. there's no way i could have done as well with an open diff.
i have gone drag racing. of course it hooked up way better than it would have without the welded diff.
i run pca (porsche club of america) time trials events. we run on airfields usually 1.8,2.3,2.9,3.3 mile courses setup. i am usually one of the faster cars out there, even in the company of 50,60,100 thousand daollar cars.
i run in nasa time trial/hpde events. again my car is very fast and competitive against cars that would seem out of reach for a little miata. there's always people coming over and looking under the hood to see what i could possibly have to beat their supercar. feels nice. some people like it, some hate it.
i have drifted the car, practice only. will be going to an event in the next few months. already know guys that have drifted miatas and say it works great. which i already know because i have been practicing.
i daily drive the car. so i need it to work. everytime i buy a good daily, someone offers me too much $$$ to pass up. so i have to drive my 200k '95 miata everyday. (100k turbocharged miles!) i have not had any axle or driveline/diff. issues. i run royal purple gear max and change it every spring. i have put 25,000 miles on my car and drive to all these events which are 140-350+ miles each way.
those are all the pros's and yes i have driven and raced in the rain and have never had a problem with spinning or loss of control.
now the cons: when you turn sharp in a parking lot, the tires chirp. if you're hauling *** into a box turn at a tight auto-x track it will understeer. if it's wet it will understeer more. that's it. oh, one more thing, i run r-comps now, so i run street tires (on the street) now. when i used to run max summer street tires and turned sharply in a parking lot, the tires would pound on the pavement because of the grip. sounded like it was going to spit the diff out on ground, but never has had a problem, but it is annoying.
so make up your own mind about what to do, but don't listen to bulllshit hearsay to makeup your mind. if you have the cash for an lsd get it, if not weld it. just have someone that knows what they are doing to work on it. like i said i can only tell you what i experienced, maybe my drivetrain just happened to be freakishly strong? but it has 200k mi.
and no, the car doesn't understeer on a real track and it doesn't buck and jerk or whatever that guy said on long sweepers. you wouldn't even know it was welded out on a track.
hear is a few vids of the car in action:
texas world speedway
YouTube - tws aug.2008 nasa hpde
redline time attack/gt live @ virgina international raceway
suby i pass at the end is a 345whp gutted/built racecar!
the suby's that pass me are 500-600awhp unlimited class cars! the orange one is crawford racing driven by tarzan yamada! it sounds like a v8.
YouTube - vir time attack practice 3
scca auto-x time attack '08 (short course due to # of entries)
YouTube - best run 2008 time attack
let me just say, i want an lsd. i really want a 1.5 way clutch type, but since i can't afford one, i welded (had it done) my diff. and have made my car faster and more fun in all types of situations and competitive events. unlike most of the crazies posting on here, i actually have personal experience to draw from rather than lame hearsay. if you turbocharge your car, your gonna need it. if not, you really don't.
i auto-x my car and dropped 1 sec. from open diff. it would not hook up at all coming out of the corners until i was going straight. the only place the diff. is a negative is in super tight turns (like a box turn) even so, i made up more time getting on the gas earlier.
i have done an scca rally-x event. there's no way i could have done as well with an open diff.
i have gone drag racing. of course it hooked up way better than it would have without the welded diff.
i run pca (porsche club of america) time trials events. we run on airfields usually 1.8,2.3,2.9,3.3 mile courses setup. i am usually one of the faster cars out there, even in the company of 50,60,100 thousand daollar cars.
i run in nasa time trial/hpde events. again my car is very fast and competitive against cars that would seem out of reach for a little miata. there's always people coming over and looking under the hood to see what i could possibly have to beat their supercar. feels nice. some people like it, some hate it.
i have drifted the car, practice only. will be going to an event in the next few months. already know guys that have drifted miatas and say it works great. which i already know because i have been practicing.
i daily drive the car. so i need it to work. everytime i buy a good daily, someone offers me too much $$$ to pass up. so i have to drive my 200k '95 miata everyday. (100k turbocharged miles!) i have not had any axle or driveline/diff. issues. i run royal purple gear max and change it every spring. i have put 25,000 miles on my car and drive to all these events which are 140-350+ miles each way.
those are all the pros's and yes i have driven and raced in the rain and have never had a problem with spinning or loss of control.
now the cons: when you turn sharp in a parking lot, the tires chirp. if you're hauling *** into a box turn at a tight auto-x track it will understeer. if it's wet it will understeer more. that's it. oh, one more thing, i run r-comps now, so i run street tires (on the street) now. when i used to run max summer street tires and turned sharply in a parking lot, the tires would pound on the pavement because of the grip. sounded like it was going to spit the diff out on ground, but never has had a problem, but it is annoying.
so make up your own mind about what to do, but don't listen to bulllshit hearsay to makeup your mind. if you have the cash for an lsd get it, if not weld it. just have someone that knows what they are doing to work on it. like i said i can only tell you what i experienced, maybe my drivetrain just happened to be freakishly strong? but it has 200k mi.
and no, the car doesn't understeer on a real track and it doesn't buck and jerk or whatever that guy said on long sweepers. you wouldn't even know it was welded out on a track.
hear is a few vids of the car in action:
texas world speedway
YouTube - tws aug.2008 nasa hpde
redline time attack/gt live @ virgina international raceway
suby i pass at the end is a 345whp gutted/built racecar!
the suby's that pass me are 500-600awhp unlimited class cars! the orange one is crawford racing driven by tarzan yamada! it sounds like a v8.
YouTube - vir time attack practice 3
scca auto-x time attack '08 (short course due to # of entries)
YouTube - best run 2008 time attack
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03-24-2009, 02:05 AM
#54
Well, I don't have porsche time attacks under my belt. But a suzuki sidekick I welded up for a friend of mine (yea I commited the sin don't stone me) Skipped every 90* turn, and would immidiately light the inside tire and go absolutely uncontrollable on an on ramp if you went 5mph above the posted limit. Amazing how much better the traction was on pavement whenever you didn't have the equivalent of a 5in rear sway bar in the back with flat tires.
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03-24-2009, 09:08 AM
#56
i love the crazy responses this question is generating. it has some people going **** crazy with stories of death and dismemberment at the hands of a welded diff!!! just awesome!
let me just say, i want an lsd. i really want a 1.5 way clutch type, but since i can't afford one, i welded (had it done) my diff. and have made my car faster and more fun in all types of situations and competitive events. unlike most of the crazies posting on here, i actually have personal experience to draw from rather than lame hearsay. if you turbocharge your car, your gonna need it. if not, you really don't.
i auto-x my car and dropped 1 sec. from open diff. it would not hook up at all coming out of the corners until i was going straight. the only place the diff. is a negative is in super tight turns (like a box turn) even so, i made up more time getting on the gas earlier.
i have done an scca rally-x event. there's no way i could have done as well with an open diff.
i have gone drag racing. of course it hooked up way better than it would have without the welded diff.
i run pca (porsche club of america) time trials events. we run on airfields usually 1.8,2.3,2.9,3.3 mile courses setup. i am usually one of the faster cars out there, even in the company of 50,60,100 thousand daollar cars.
i run in nasa time trial/hpde events. again my car is very fast and competitive against cars that would seem out of reach for a little miata. there's always people coming over and looking under the hood to see what i could possibly have to beat their supercar. feels nice. some people like it, some hate it.
i have drifted the car, practice only. will be going to an event in the next few months. already know guys that have drifted miatas and say it works great. which i already know because i have been practicing.
i daily drive the car. so i need it to work. everytime i buy a good daily, someone offers me too much $$$ to pass up. so i have to drive my 200k '95 miata everyday. (100k turbocharged miles!) i have not had any axle or driveline/diff. issues. i run royal purple gear max and change it every spring. i have put 25,000 miles on my car and drive to all these events which are 140-350+ miles each way.
those are all the pros's and yes i have driven and raced in the rain and have never had a problem with spinning or loss of control.
now the cons: when you turn sharp in a parking lot, the tires chirp. if you're hauling *** into a box turn at a tight auto-x track it will understeer. if it's wet it will understeer more. that's it. oh, one more thing, i run r-comps now, so i run street tires (on the street) now. when i used to run max summer street tires and turned sharply in a parking lot, the tires would pound on the pavement because of the grip. sounded like it was going to spit the diff out on ground, but never has had a problem, but it is annoying.
so make up your own mind about what to do, but don't listen to bulllshit hearsay to makeup your mind. if you have the cash for an lsd get it, if not weld it. just have someone that knows what they are doing to work on it. like i said i can only tell you what i experienced, maybe my drivetrain just happened to be freakishly strong? but it has 200k mi.
and no, the car doesn't understeer on a real track and it doesn't buck and jerk or whatever that guy said on long sweepers. you wouldn't even know it was welded out on a track.
hear is a few vids of the car in action:
texas world speedway
YouTube - tws aug.2008 nasa hpde
redline time attack/gt live @ virgina international raceway
suby i pass at the end is a 345whp gutted/built racecar!
the suby's that pass me are 500-600awhp unlimited class cars! the orange one is crawford racing driven by tarzan yamada! it sounds like a v8.
YouTube - vir time attack practice 3
scca auto-x time attack '08 (short course due to # of entries)
YouTube - best run 2008 time attack
let me just say, i want an lsd. i really want a 1.5 way clutch type, but since i can't afford one, i welded (had it done) my diff. and have made my car faster and more fun in all types of situations and competitive events. unlike most of the crazies posting on here, i actually have personal experience to draw from rather than lame hearsay. if you turbocharge your car, your gonna need it. if not, you really don't.
i auto-x my car and dropped 1 sec. from open diff. it would not hook up at all coming out of the corners until i was going straight. the only place the diff. is a negative is in super tight turns (like a box turn) even so, i made up more time getting on the gas earlier.
i have done an scca rally-x event. there's no way i could have done as well with an open diff.
i have gone drag racing. of course it hooked up way better than it would have without the welded diff.
i run pca (porsche club of america) time trials events. we run on airfields usually 1.8,2.3,2.9,3.3 mile courses setup. i am usually one of the faster cars out there, even in the company of 50,60,100 thousand daollar cars.
i run in nasa time trial/hpde events. again my car is very fast and competitive against cars that would seem out of reach for a little miata. there's always people coming over and looking under the hood to see what i could possibly have to beat their supercar. feels nice. some people like it, some hate it.
i have drifted the car, practice only. will be going to an event in the next few months. already know guys that have drifted miatas and say it works great. which i already know because i have been practicing.
i daily drive the car. so i need it to work. everytime i buy a good daily, someone offers me too much $$$ to pass up. so i have to drive my 200k '95 miata everyday. (100k turbocharged miles!) i have not had any axle or driveline/diff. issues. i run royal purple gear max and change it every spring. i have put 25,000 miles on my car and drive to all these events which are 140-350+ miles each way.
those are all the pros's and yes i have driven and raced in the rain and have never had a problem with spinning or loss of control.
now the cons: when you turn sharp in a parking lot, the tires chirp. if you're hauling *** into a box turn at a tight auto-x track it will understeer. if it's wet it will understeer more. that's it. oh, one more thing, i run r-comps now, so i run street tires (on the street) now. when i used to run max summer street tires and turned sharply in a parking lot, the tires would pound on the pavement because of the grip. sounded like it was going to spit the diff out on ground, but never has had a problem, but it is annoying.
so make up your own mind about what to do, but don't listen to bulllshit hearsay to makeup your mind. if you have the cash for an lsd get it, if not weld it. just have someone that knows what they are doing to work on it. like i said i can only tell you what i experienced, maybe my drivetrain just happened to be freakishly strong? but it has 200k mi.
and no, the car doesn't understeer on a real track and it doesn't buck and jerk or whatever that guy said on long sweepers. you wouldn't even know it was welded out on a track.
hear is a few vids of the car in action:
texas world speedway
YouTube - tws aug.2008 nasa hpde
redline time attack/gt live @ virgina international raceway
suby i pass at the end is a 345whp gutted/built racecar!
the suby's that pass me are 500-600awhp unlimited class cars! the orange one is crawford racing driven by tarzan yamada! it sounds like a v8.
YouTube - vir time attack practice 3
scca auto-x time attack '08 (short course due to # of entries)
YouTube - best run 2008 time attack
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03-24-2009, 09:22 AM
#57
Open Diff..... Naturally Aspirated Street Mod 2 Champion for Texas Region
Who needs a welder when input is more important than the mod?
Edit*** The popping was due to a failed eccentric bolt on the control arm due to "awesome" grip setup. Polys are in.
Who needs a welder when input is more important than the mod?
Edit*** The popping was due to a failed eccentric bolt on the control arm due to "awesome" grip setup. Polys are in.
Last edited by Machismo; 03-24-2009 at 12:42 PM.
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03-24-2009, 12:50 PM
#58
Former Vendor
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 15,442
Total Cats: 2,099
-Open diffs will make your car push so hard it'll give birth
-But it won't matter, because your stock 1.6 diff will just break anyway
-If you seriously care about handling on a budget, get an Rx7 LSD.
-But it won't matter, because your stock 1.6 diff will just break anyway
-If you seriously care about handling on a budget, get an Rx7 LSD.
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03-25-2009, 01:01 AM
#59
that's cool you won your championship. . i won my class in 2007 for the south texas border region scca. didn't really run in '08 except for a couple special events. real tracks with other cars and 1hr.+ of seat time per day is way more fun.
olderguy: i've tried alot of tires. most were good. best street/trackday tire, handsdown, is the dunlop z1 star spec.
i was running with modified porsche's, gutted/swaped civics, cmc class mustangs and camaro's and a bunch of other fast cars, and they were all on hoosiers or r-comps. and i was on dunlops that i drove to the track!
anyways, now i'm on ra-1's at the track. and dunlop dz101 for street are great tires. but i've loved the bfg R1's and yokohama a038r's, and have had azenis rt-615, hankook rs2's,goodyear bias ply slicks, hankook and hoosier slicks, and a bunch of others. i really would love some 225/45/15 nitto nt-01's on 15x9 6ul's though!
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