BFG Rival S 1.5 unusual wear?
Hello MT.net. I'm posting to document my tire failure so hopefully others can learn from my mistakes and help me avoid future ones.
I've run these 225 Rivals on a 15.8 tire with an aggressive alignment of 3.2 front, 2.7 rear. Only Rear total toe: + 1/8". Suspension is Xida Race with 800/500 springs. This is a slightly more aggressive Dual Duty Super Miata alignment. On the 5th track day, the outside front tire saw severe delamination. I was running 34-36 PSI hot throughout the day. I believe the failure was due to inadequate tire pressure causing extreme tire rollover and outside shoulder wear. The intact rear outside tire (right side on thunderhill) has extra outside wear along the outside, and shows wear marks along the vertical edge of the tire. At some point, the front tire couldn't cope with the wear and the tire roll-over, and completely delaminated. I noticed immediately due to the vibration and sudden understeer. Once i pulled in, I saw this carnage :eek4:. I'm fortunate I didn't go off and was able to drive home. Corrective actions I'm thinking of taking:
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...90b09a14fa.pngShoulder wear https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...0a60980a75.pngAbrupt Delamination https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...c910cf9003.pngTire roll over |
How much sway bar do you have?
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You corded the tire because you didn't have the car or the tire setup right. Certainly not a defect.
It sounds like you learned your lesson. |
225 is also too wide for an 8" rim according to the powers that be.
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Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 1496839)
You corded the tire because you didn't have the car or the tire setup right. Certainly not a defect. It sounds like you learned your lesson.
Recheck your alignment, many shops fudge and don't second check toe. A good track alignment will kill tires inside edge on the street, and a good street alignment will kill the outside of tires on track. RS4's do wear great.
Originally Posted by themonkeyman
(Post 1496869)
225 is also too wide for an 8" rim according to the powers that be.
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"Remember to ensure maximum performance vehicle set-up, tire pressure, and temperature monitoring is imperative. Rival S is primarily intended as a low-speed autocross tire. Use on road courses in time attack formats requires proper care and feeding."
Get that pyro into duty asap. Set your pressure based on temp reading for maximum performance. Maximum tire life or treadwear will require a different pressure strategy. BFG says to run them high for even treadwear, but you'll be running them low on 9" wheels for maximum pace. Rotate your tires between events/days/sessions to promote more even tread wear. Dont leave the RF tire on the RF every session for two days and expect it to wear the same as the left rear. If they're overheating, like the delaminated one did, dont run all 20-30 minutes without knowing how to keep them cool. A tire like the RivalS will be way off its happy plateau by lap 5 without conscience cool-down laps/efforts. |
When they get greasy you have exceeded the design parameters and need a full cool down lap. Otherwise you're just smearing the rubber off onto the surface.
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Thanks for the good feedback, all. Somehow I missed the responses to my own thread. I moved to the Supermiata Big Grip kit when i moved to these tires. In hindsight, the extra grip is what allowed me to cook my tires.
I'm trying every solution: I bumped my front camber from 2.6 to 3.2 and the rear accordingly. I'm pretty sure the bolts slipped as it was supposed to be at 3, so new bolts will go in shortly. I've messaged SadFab for some baller Delrin bushings as the oem rubber bushings are completely shot. Pyrometer measurements are now good, roughly even at 32 psi hot on 8" with RS4s. |
G-Force Rival comes in 3-4 versions.
R1 is Rcomp Rival is for street and road coarse Rival S is for street and Autocross with emphasis on autocross Rival S 1.5 is a TireRack exclusive that has additional wet traction. (so I was told by BFGoodrich, but I think I have seen it other places) |
Doesn't look like you had a lot of rollover. What kind of track were you on? For instance, Pueblo Motorsports Park near me is notoriously hard on your left front tire. Could be something similar for you. Were the tires feeling greasy out on track?
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Looks like it just got overheated. That blueish color...
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Originally Posted by DNMakinson
(Post 1515654)
G-Force Rival comes in 3-4 versions.
R1 is Rcomp Rival is for street and road coarse Rival S is for street and Autocross with emphasis on autocross Rival S 1.5 is a TireRack exclusive that has additional wet traction. (so I was told by BFGoodrich, but I think I have seen it other places) I've seen it reported the Rival S will last 5-10 hrs on track depending on driving style. The RS4 has been reported to last a full 24 hr enduro and my experience with them backs that up. I've got 15hrs, 20 auto-x events, 3,000 street miles and still would have life left if I hadn't ran them on too narrow of wheels for a while. They are also 2 seconds a lap slower than the rival S. |
Originally Posted by moocow
(Post 1515652)
Pyrometer measurements are now good, roughly even at 32 psi hot on 8" with RS4s.
If you didn't know already, the alignment bolts need to be very tight on a high grip setup. Like use a 1.5 foot bar tight. You only get 2 or so alignments at this level, as the bolts eventually just yield. |
Originally Posted by thumpetto007
(Post 1518103)
You don't want even temps across the tire. You want 10*F difference between inner and mid, and an additional 10* between mid and outer.
If you didn't know already, the alignment bolts need to be very tight on a high grip setup. Like use a 1.5 foot bar tight. You only get 2 or so alignments at this level, as the bolts eventually just yield. |
Originally Posted by DNMakinson
(Post 1518114)
Thump. to be truly helpful, it would be good to specify if temps are to rise going from inside to outside, or fall from inside to outside; or peak in the middle... your statement is true, but incomplete.
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