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Old 06-25-2015, 07:44 PM   #141
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<p>My friends car drove great 24/7, until we put it on the track. Then it started pissing coolant everywhere. Blow head gasket. <span>hornetball had the same problem.</span></p>
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Old 06-25-2015, 07:47 PM   #142
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I'm thinking I'll be a cheap little bugger and just swap another OEM gasket in, screw getting the valve job. If I need to I think I can deck my head a few thou, I have a mill with enough travel...

I think Sean went through the same thing, and I thought my CAS was pissing all over the back of the block, but now I'm thinking it might be that same oil passage leaking, no oil above the coolant neck, so it can't be CAS?

Argeh!
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Old 06-25-2015, 07:49 PM   #143
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<p>Same thing here. Thought it was valve cover, turned out to be head gasket. Head needs to be surfaced for a new gasket.</p>
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Old 06-25-2015, 07:56 PM   #144
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Did you upgrade to MLS? I'm hoping to not need the 1.6 long enough to spend the extra dollars.

I need to do some measuring, and reading, I don't see why I can't deck my own head.
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Old 06-25-2015, 07:59 PM   #145
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Sorry for dumb question, but can you get a MLS gasket for a 1.6? If so, you could ****** the head, surface it, hopefully the deck of the block is ok, and put it together stronger at least.
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Old 06-25-2015, 08:00 PM   #146
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Quote:
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Did you upgrade to MLS? I'm hoping to not need the 1.6 long enough to spend the extra dollars.

I need to do some measuring, and reading, I don't see why I can't deck my own head.
I've surfaced my heads for years, I've posted how I did it. Flat block of lexan and sand paper. Technique is important. Last time I had the head off I took it to a machine shop, asked them to check it to see if it was flat, they said they couldn't get a 2 thou feeler gauge anywhere, it was flat every way they checked it.
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Old 06-25-2015, 08:08 PM   #147
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There's a cometic MLS gasket, but it's double the price of OEM. I'm honestly more worried about surface prep on the MLS gasket, if OEM will hold up before the rods let go it kinda makes sense to go with the easier surface prep and cheaper gasket, or at least that's my thoughts.

I've got a mill and a flycutter large enough, I'm thinking I'll check the thing, maybe stone it if it's close and mill it if I need to. The block, those don't warp often right? I hope not heh...
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Old 06-25-2015, 08:21 PM   #148
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<p>I just used OEM. The stock long block wont take any more boost than the OEM gasket can handle.</p>
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Old 06-25-2015, 08:31 PM   #149
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Quote:
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There's a cometic MLS gasket, but it's double the price of OEM. I'm honestly more worried about surface prep on the MLS gasket, if OEM will hold up before the rods let go it kinda makes sense to go with the easier surface prep and cheaper gasket, or at least that's my thoughts.

I've got a mill and a flycutter large enough, I'm thinking I'll check the thing, maybe stone it if it's close and mill it if I need to. The block, those don't warp often right? I hope not heh...
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<p>I just used OEM. The stock long block wont take any more boost than the OEM gasket can handle.</p>
Either way will probably be fine. If you get the surfaces clean and flat, the composite gasket will seal. But yours is leaking thus why I said maybe go MLS since they are tougher and don't degrade over time like a composite. I'm guessing the composite is just old?

Yeah to run MLS you need to have both surfaces flat and smooth. Block is likely flat, not sure if smooth, you'll have to be the judge of that. Head you can make flat and smooth. If block surface is crap, run the composite gasket as they are a lot more forgiving to surface imperfections.

If it were me and I had the time, I'd do MLS and surface the head, and make the block smooth. Then not have to worry about this again. But if I was in a hurry and cheap, composite.
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Old 06-25-2015, 08:33 PM   #150
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<p>I don't think deezums plans on keeping this engine long enough to even worry about longetivity.&nbsp;</p>
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Old 06-25-2015, 08:59 PM   #151
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<p>yea i thought my leak was the cas too. cas was basically dry, it was all the head gasket. im quite surprised how much it was leaking.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>i also dont intend on going through the trouble and expense of an mls on a 1.6, its just not worth it.</p>

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Old 06-26-2015, 01:56 AM   #152
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The motor has been out of my car at some point from the looks of it, but I think it might have been for a clutch, AFAIK the head gasket is the stock 170K one, least I hope it is.

I hope to have a 1.8 to build up before this winter, right now I just want to drive before the season is over. I was planning on going to an autocross event this weekend, but now I think I'll pass. I really didn't want to spend a dollar on this 1.6, but ~$200 for a few good months of driving or more don't sound all that bad. Hell, I can probably get $200 for my 1.6 when I'm done, especially after all the new stuff I've put on it.
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Old 06-26-2015, 03:42 AM   #153
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Do it. I did a head gasket for like 130.
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Old 06-26-2015, 04:57 AM   #154
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I'm gonna call a shop or two tomorrow and see what they'd want to mill the head, if it's anything less than $50 I think I'll just take it in and have it done.

In the meantime I figure I'll finally knock out my PCV setup with some sort of catch can. I'll be able to clean the intake and head of oil, so I figure it's a good a time as any.

I've come up with this thing, a template for now to see if I'm measuring right...



Basically replace the air valve with a new, slightly larger PCV port. I'll be able to route things with an elbow 1/4 NPT fitting and cheap barb fittings, a larger better check/pcv valve, and I'm strongly considering using a $7 harbor freight air compressor filter as the actual catch can instead of making or modifying ebay stuff, also conveniently 1/4NPT.

Mini Air Line Filter

I'll open up the ports between stock baffles in the valve cover while it's off to help get more flow. Then I'm thinking I'll just drill and weld a larger 1/4NPT bung smack on top of the valve cover, so it can never ever drink oil in corners, maybe do the same on the other side. I'll plug the stock PCV ports on the manifold and valve cover, basically about it. If alumiweld works on the valve cover I don't think I'll have all that much invested, and it ought to work pretty well.
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Old 06-26-2015, 07:18 PM   #155
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The two machine shops here in town are expensive! One wants 80 flippen' bucks just to skim the head, and that's if I bring it in damn near spotless. Another says he'll do it for $50, so I guess I'll just do that.

The shop I used to use moved, I'm sure he'd of done it for $30 or so. Bullshit.
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Old 06-26-2015, 07:22 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deezums View Post
I'm gonna call a shop or two tomorrow and see what they'd want to mill the head, if it's anything less than $50 I think I'll just take it in and have it done.

In the meantime I figure I'll finally knock out my PCV setup with some sort of catch can. I'll be able to clean the intake and head of oil, so I figure it's a good a time as any.

I've come up with this thing, a template for now to see if I'm measuring right...



Basically replace the air valve with a new, slightly larger PCV port. I'll be able to route things with an elbow 1/4 NPT fitting and cheap barb fittings, a larger better check/pcv valve, and I'm strongly considering using a $7 harbor freight air compressor filter as the actual catch can instead of making or modifying ebay stuff, also conveniently 1/4NPT.

Mini Air Line Filter

I'll open up the ports between stock baffles in the valve cover while it's off to help get more flow. Then I'm thinking I'll just drill and weld a larger 1/4NPT bung smack on top of the valve cover, so it can never ever drink oil in corners, maybe do the same on the other side. I'll plug the stock PCV ports on the manifold and valve cover, basically about it. If alumiweld works on the valve cover I don't think I'll have all that much invested, and it ought to work pretty well.
FWIW, I just plugged off the PCV on my car, and ran the exhaust-side-breather, with no catch can, to the air intake pre-compressor. No blow by, no oil use, just works. And it's dirt simple, it's just block one hose, hook another up. I recommend you at least try that before doing anything too crazy.

As for machine shop, yeah prob go with the cheaper guy if he seems to be legit.

I feel your pain though, I had the SC base I welded skimmed at a machine shop, they charged me 125 flipping bucks! Crazy... It might have taken 20 minutes to setup, then 5 minutes to machine flat.
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Old 06-26-2015, 08:49 PM   #157
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That doesn't just work though, you deleted the positive part of the PCV setup. It never evacuates the block of blowby it just lets it have a place to escape if it needs it which is not something I'm willing to tolerate. OEMs have been slapping expensive PCV setups on cars since the 60's because they know it increases engine oil longevity, and consequentially it helps the motor and bearings to last longer. If the way you describe was superior, they'd obviously follow suit as it would obviously be cheaper and more reliable, it just doesn't do what the system is designed to do.

I think you and I have voiced our opinions on the necessity of positive crankcase ventilation before though!

If I had a bigger flycutter and a machine with a tilting head I might try decking my own head, unfortunately no knee mill, no cutter big enough for a single pass, and still tiny tiny R8 collet.
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Old 06-26-2015, 09:54 PM   #158
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Quote:
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That doesn't just work though, you deleted the positive part of the PCV setup. It never evacuates the block of blowby it just lets it have a place to escape if it needs it which is not something I'm willing to tolerate. OEMs have been slapping expensive PCV setups on cars since the 60's because they know it increases engine oil longevity, and consequentially it helps the motor and bearings to last longer. If the way you describe was superior, they'd obviously follow suit as it would obviously be cheaper and more reliable, it just doesn't do what the system is designed to do.

I think you and I have voiced our opinions on the necessity of positive crankcase ventilation before though!

If I had a bigger flycutter and a machine with a tilting head I might try decking my own head, unfortunately no knee mill, no cutter big enough for a single pass, and still tiny tiny R8 collet.
Oh, that was you... Well, it works for me since about 2008.

But honestly, even if the PCV DOUBLES the engine bearing life by keeping the oil cleaner, that's not going to help me at all because I simply don't get that many miles out of my engine. But, if blocking it means less chance of detonation, that will increase the life of my motor. That's how I look at it.

If you want "best of both worlds", build the worlds greatest catch can and hook it up.

What's sad is I build a pretty sweet catch can, and then just didn't hook it up since I blocked the PCV anyways. I guess I could hook it up just to see how well it works.

You really should build an awesome catch can if you want to run PCV, cause any oil in the motor is bad, it can make it more likely to detonate, and I know we agree on that. The little air compressor thing isn't going to do much, and it's capacity is tiny. You would fill that thing in a few hundred miles, and during that time a lot of oil would go right through it. If you really want PCV, and that's fine, do it right.
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Old 06-26-2015, 10:05 PM   #159
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If you've got no catch can on the line you've hooked pre-compressor it will be sucking some oil into the intake, not as much as if the block were vented, but still some blowby and oil vapor from the stuff getting hot and expanding will be sucked from the block. Worse all that oil and gunk is through the charger now, right? I think you agree with me when I say something has to be done with it, it stinks if you don't burn it which I don't care to live with either. In boost, which isn't much in a predominantly street car, I can tolerate a little ventilation out the breather. Even better, boost is often followed by some pretty strong vacuum so the stink never really happens.

I haven't had much of a problem with detonation and I'm running no catch can up to this point, vented breather. My thoughts are if I can keep whatever might possibly pool in the valve cover from getting into the ports I don't see the can filling much. Seems most people only have problems hard on it in the corners, which makes sense as the stock ports would pretty much pour whatever collected out at that point.

You might be right on the cheap filter's capacity, but I'll be able to swap something better if necessary. They do have a lot of the properties of a vortex oil separator though, especially if I can open and modify it a little bit. If I've got it right, I don't expect it to fill more than halfway every thousand miles or so, no matter how I drive.
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Old 06-26-2015, 10:16 PM   #160
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True. But in practice, it's about 1/1000 (not even joking) the amount that a PCV system dumps. For reference, I installed a clear plastic tube on my exhaust side vent, just so I could "see" if any oil accumulates in it. It's still clear. Also, my intake pipes are plain steel, so they're rusty inside. If any oil goes in, there will be signs of the wetness and less rust. So far, they are dry. But this motor is new and tight, so there's very minimal blow by. I used to have a getto catch can on it for years, and after 3-4 years, it had oil residue in it, but not much, not enough that you could "pour" anything out.

For reference, the first time I cracked a piston in half, I blew the dipstick out a few inches. There was notably more blowby then!

Anyways good luck, post how your setup works. If you think it's great, try putting a clear plastic fuel filter inline, after your "catch can" so if anything gets past it, you'll see. Or, just put 2 of your cheap catch cans, one after the other, and see what happens.
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