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Old 05-01-2016, 09:34 AM   #61
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Nice build. Don't set foot on a track with those pads. Get some PFC or Carbotech pads for the track. I never advocate going to the track with anything less than 1200-1500 deg F brake pads, or anything higher than 200 TW tires.
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Old 05-01-2016, 10:25 AM   #62
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Any tips on dealing with break pads that fade fairly easily at a track day? I didn't end up with time to get new ones and change them out. They are cheapish ceramic street pads. I did look at the track layout, and almost all the major break zones are just going to be cone walls I can plow through if the worst happens. How do I best keep rotor/pad temps down?
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Don't set foot on a track with those pads.
​This.

Having your contigency plan for shitty brakes be going through a cone wall is stupid, puts you at danger, puts others at danger, at the very best case will limit other people's track time when you're getting towed off, and is an overall bad idea. You could toast those pads in one shot coming around Nascar T2 braking for devil's elbow (which notoriously turns into a train of slow moving cars in novice groups, so instead of plowing through cones, you'll be t-boning/side swiping a series of cars with literally nowhere else to turn). Edit - Remembered the track direction is clockwise. Either way, braking off either straight could do some serious damage to your pads. What if someone spins on straight 200 yards in front of you and you need to emergency brake?

Get track pads or don't go on track, especially a high speed course like Pocono.
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Old 05-01-2016, 12:15 PM   #63
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Agree with the pads comments, i think that if you had time to get a new top in, you had time to order pads and pay for quick delivery and get them on the car (got to keep your priorities straight if you are going to the track)...
BTW i did a similar thing to get the canves top closed for the first time, keep it closed for a while and leave the car in the sun to let the top strech a little, my top is still difficult to close after 3 months
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Old 05-01-2016, 01:37 PM   #64
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Agree with the pads comments, i think that if you had time to get a new top in, you had time to order pads and pay for quick delivery and get them on the car (got to keep your priorities straight if you are going to the track)...
BTW i did a similar thing to get the canves top closed for the first time, keep it closed for a while and leave the car in the sun to let the top strech a little, my top is still difficult to close after 3 months
Oh, I totally had the time, yes. The issue was, I didn't think of it until last night when I was having some spirited back road driving fun and faded the pads at the end a bit (downhill, 80-20 after a good bit of hard beating). Looked it up and the pads on the car now are centric posi-quiet ceramic. I didn't even think about it before that since I have never had them fade before and just plane forgot (they hold up perfectly to autocross on Yoko S. Drives or RE-71R's, at least with how aggressive I drive.) Also, my first track day was on the OEM pads in my Honda Fit and I ran into zero problems, but that was a very tight course, more of a glorified go-kart track.

I have looked everywhere and the only pads I can get before Tuesday are Stoptech Street Performance (now sport apparently? 309 prefix) with amazon prime and one day shipping. Guess I am going to try those, from what I have read on NASIOC and a few other places, they will be ok for an HPDE on street tires (Gonna run the S. Drives). I only have 85ish HP at the rear, so I will never be going that fast. I will report back with how they do.

We actually put a space heater in the car for a few hours and slowly walked the roof down, it is fully latched now. I need to decide if I want to bring the hard top for the track day or not.

Last edited by x_25; 05-01-2016 at 02:12 PM.
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Old 05-01-2016, 03:48 PM   #65
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Stoptech Streets are certainly better than whatever you have on there now. I've used them a couple times with street tires and stock power on track, you should be good with those and good fluid.

Do you have SS lines?
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Old 05-01-2016, 04:30 PM   #66
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No SS lines yet. They are on the short list of things to get soonish.

I switched thebcar over to DOT4 when I bought it. Did a flush two years ago and a fresh flush just yesterday. Should be good to go with that. I have never had the pedel go soft on this car.
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Old 05-01-2016, 07:02 PM   #67
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So pads should be dealt with Tuesday morning (our deliveries at work come at 10:30am).

I am still curious now what can be done to keep pad/rotor temps down? I forget who and which thread, but someone posted the highest temps they have seen were by noobs at their first/early track days. Curious as to why/how.
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Old 05-02-2016, 10:02 AM   #68
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The forcast is looking like wet and cool. 50% chanve of showers according to NOAA, so I am betting on that misty wet we get this time of the year.

Any tips? I already know to try and avoid standing water, smooth inputs, drive off like I mean it if I am going to go off, and wet grass is ice.

Also planning on putting on some rain-x and the hard top.

Need to make a tire choice though. My S.Drives are 3 years old with 4-6/32 depending on where you measure on the tire (a bit of camber wear). The RE-71r are all worn even at 7/32. I am thinking the s.drives will still be better in the wet?
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Old 05-02-2016, 11:18 AM   #69
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You're thinking too much. It's your first real track day. Make sure the car is mostly fresh and sorted, which it sounds like you have. I'd be surprised if the re71r wasn't a better wet tire. You should make the day more about learning the lines, learning to be aware of the flaggers and other cars, than trying to push the car to its limit. There will probably be plenty of trains going.

SS lines are important if you continue trck days, not really for feel but because blowing an over heated rubber hose makes the day really shitty.
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Old 05-02-2016, 11:28 AM   #70
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Yeah, I am not planning on trying to be fast. I have done enough autocross to know I don't know anything about driving a car on the track. I just want to do my best to avoid spinning off track.

Tire choice is more that I am concerned with hydroplaning than all out grip.

There are a lot of things on the list if I decide to do track days more often after this. SS lines and 1.8 brakes are right at the top of them.

Thanks for all the guidance dasting!
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Old 05-03-2016, 07:40 AM   #71
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Default Basic low boost build: Noob does it all wrong.

The best way to preserve your brakes is to not use them. I'm actually not kidding. One of my driving faults is braking too much for certain corners and I've oft heard from successful racers that they had to learn to brake less to be faster.

The cool, damp conditions should help your brake situation. Wet pavement won't allow you to work them so hard.

As stated above, learn the lines and where to place the car, where the flag stations are, and where to brake. Always brake in a straight line. Finish braking before starting your turn.
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Old 05-03-2016, 10:10 AM   #72
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I have a similar fault doing autocross. Braking too much, too early, and not getting on the go peddle.

I have actually been reading that noobs tend to use the brakes more in the wet? We will find out I guess!

Yeah, lines and corner stations. This is my big goal for the day, trying to watch for flags. The way my car was set up back when I first got it taught me to always brake in a strate line. It had a tendency to snap oversteer even with a tiny bit of throttle lift. My first few autocrosses were spent going "wow, I am suddenly facing the other way, when did that happen!" so I should be good there.
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Old 05-03-2016, 10:15 AM   #73
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Cutting it close. Latest I can leave work and be on time is 2pm. Fingers crossed the fedex driver gets here before that!

Still, from phoenix arizona to on the truck for delivery in less than 24 hours! Modern technology is amazing.

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Old 05-03-2016, 12:46 PM   #74
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If your car has snap oversteer you need an aligment with a little toe out on the rear ASAP, folowed by travel extending top hats on the rear. A well setup Miata does not have snap oversteer
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Old 05-03-2016, 12:49 PM   #75
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HAD snap overstere. It had a crap alignment and blwon shocks when I first bought it. Hasn't been a problem in a while, but it taught me how to get all my braking done before turn in.
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Old 05-04-2016, 12:34 AM   #76
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Track night went well, just got home. I will post a full review tomorrow. I shot video, but the camera was a bit too low and all you can see is the interior, which sucks. Oh well.
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Old 05-05-2016, 10:29 AM   #77
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First, to those that told me to change the pads. A huge thanks. Props for all of you.

For the lazy people: TLDR; C7s are fast. My car is slow. And his todo list grew 7 sizes larger that day!

Ok! So like I said, the track night went smoothly and (mostly) without incident. Only bent metal was in one of the higher run groups (evo hit a tire wall, he drove it off the track) and there was a broken axle in one of the other groups as well.

Novice group was large, 30 cars. Everyone was very friendly though and seemed like they spent more time learning to give point bys and watch the flags than trying to go fast. The novice coach did a great job making sure everyone knew what they needed to be doing out on track, even without instructors in the cars.

The paced lap session (first time on the track for the novice group) was spent making sure everyone knew where the flagging stations and passing zones were. First open session on track, I spent my time doing my best to remember to always check the corner stations and my mirrors to give point bys. There were no issues of people passing without point bys or anything of the sort.

Second session out I played with lines and braking a bit. This was my favorite session since I ended up mostly in a big gap and little to no traffic.

Third session I got stuck in a lot of traffic, even pitted in to try to get out of it, but quickly ended up back in it again. I was being given point bys (mostly by a newer mustang and a 944) but they weren't lifting enough to let me by.

Some random thoughts on things I learned.

C7 Corvets are stupidly, unbelievably fast. Holy crap! Giving them point bys coming into Nascar T2 (the start of the biggest passing zone) was amazing. They would just roar off in to the distance as I giggled like a little school girl.

My car is stupidly, unbelievably slow. Point bys for everyone in the straights! Basically, I would come out of the devil's elbow and just hang my arm on the roof and keep way left against the wall and point eveyone by. Oh well!

The MSM on all seasons was not nearly as fast as I would have thought. I could loose him fairly quickly and he wasn't that much faster on the straights. Still had to lift to let him by in a timely fashion. Same was true for the BRZs (there were more BRZs than Miatas!).

Foamectomied seats work great. Reasonably comfortable on track and held me in place nicely. Need to do some more shaping, but I will be sticking with that, stock seat belt and airbag for a while.

Most people really, really don't know how to corner. While I will not consider myself an expert, and I am sure my lines were not that good, three years of autocross means I can at least somewhat take corners. There were only a few cars/drivers that could keep up/get away in the corner sections. I regularly ended right up behind people once off the straights.

I need to reconnect my rear sway bar on the track. Man, my car was pushy! Even after I set the front bar to it's softer position.

Trail braking is fun! you get the wiggles coming down into the corner.

I need to remember to check my gauges more often.

Nascar tracks are wide. Like, super wide.

Running the S. Drives was the correct choice for me. I had plenty of grip to not get stuck behind people too often, but not so much that I didn't lock up a front tire here and there and slide a bit and learn some things without going to fast or flat spotting anything. Will probably run the RE-71R at the next one.

So all that said, I definitely need to do this more often. But I need to do a lot of work on my car first. Engine and drive train handled it just fine and the suspension was composed and fine. The brakes though... I managed to change the front pads to the Stoptechs. But I could not get one of the rear caliper pins out. So I couldn't get the rear pads changed. The Posi-Quiets in the back are now crumbly and white... I don't think they liked it. The Stoptechs did great though. No fade or anything, even braking hard down from 100mph.

So I have at least one rear caliper to do, and something, in the last session, sprung a leak on the front right. I came back in and my rim was not only coated with dust like the others, but had fluid on it. And it wasn't water. I will be investigating that this weekend. Brakes stayed firm and everything, so I didn't even know until I came back in and looked the car over.



Top of the list is now doing a brake system overhaul. I am going to rebuild the calipers and get SS lines (TSE? 949? FM? will do more research). Also trying to find if the 1.6 and 1.8 calipers are the same or not and if it is just the brackets that are different? Can never have too much brakes I suppose.
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Old 05-05-2016, 10:35 AM   #78
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Calipers are the same. Brackets and pads are different.
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Old 05-05-2016, 10:46 AM   #79
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Calipers are the same. Brackets and pads are different.
Perfect. I will upgrade in the future. And since the calipers are the same, the lines should work as well.

Note to self: prop when not on mobile.
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Old 05-13-2016, 10:38 PM   #80
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Finally got the video up (apparently a few days ago, I thought it had failed). Please let me know if I am doing anything terribly wrong. And yeah, the video angle sucks. Need to mount the camera higher next time.

Yes, I know I can't heel toe. My lower legs are twisted at funny angles, need to extend the peddles a bit to mange it. Also, the hand on the e-brake down the straight won't happen again. Habit from highway cruising.

This was the last two or so laps from my second session.

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