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Old 08-15-2012, 02:06 PM   #3381
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Originally Posted by hingstonwm View Post
Maybe it is time for you to step back and do some soul searching. If huge power numbers are what you want, you will get better and more reliable results with a engine swap. I bet you would be much happier with an ls v8 set up.
Yah. I'm not going to put $30,000+ more into this car. Driving my IS-F, I do indeed think I would be happier with an LS setup. But. I already have my built motor, manifold, exhaust. I really did enjoy the GT3071 power. I didn't enjoy losing to chipped audis with an exhaust, but it was still fun. As I said before, Soviet's incoming S256 which is GT3076 sized is calling my name.

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Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
You should have ran it in 2nd gear, thats your problem.

Fae this makes no sense man, miatas are pushing 500 horses at 25 or something psi. Obviously something is off. Clutch slipping? Slipped timing belt?

Next time try roller dyno?
Who is pushing 500hp @ 25psi? Clutch is 600ft lb 949 twin disc ceramaic clutch. Even if timing belt is off, car is tuned to best timing before knock.

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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
THEY STILL DONT MAKE SENSE

At least when compared to other setups.

I mean hell, compare it to your own setup previously:

25psi on a 3071 on a crappy log and other restrictions, and you made 400.
Note that on the same dyno I just ran on, I made about 300hp. I think that some dynos "read high". Your results relative to other cars on the same dyno are important.

Also. Note that the "400hp" number was the result of a paid tuning session (before I learned how to tune). Before the session started, the tuner asked, "how much power do you want to make". I think that he fudged the numbers. No other log manifold GT3071 other than FM's has come close to 400. Realistically, I think I was 330-360hp with the GT3071.
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:21 PM   #3382
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So now you understand why we're all "MEDIOCRE"??!!!!
I'm not mediocre. I can only feel like I am partly responsible for Mins goals and some of his fails
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:23 PM   #3383
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Or borrow Soviet's MS3+X. I'm sure he'll be OK with small sexual favors in return...
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:52 PM   #3384
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
/\/\/\/\please for the love of everything vegan follow this advice/\/\/\/\/\
I feel like a sac rider, but seriously, follow this post also. You have great support here with the MS system. You know you've wanted to make the switch forever.
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:58 PM   #3385
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Look fellaz. Hydra EMS is not causing problems here. It is not responsible for peak tq @ 6000RPM or no dyno load or fueling fail. EMS is supposed to do 5 things:

Fuel
Timing
Idle
Meth
Knock detect

I would run my car on a slide ruler if it could do all that stuff. Get off the megasquirt dick. It's irrelevant in this situation.

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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
So let me get this straight: you guys are both thinking that a SMALLER turbo will make MORE power?

Or is Fae finally settling for "MEDIOCRITY" and wanting more under the curve? LOL

Fae if you're going to continue on in your quest for ALLOFIT you need an IM. Stop using the retarded logic "it aint dropping off so its fine". Its not fine. That stupid hogged out POS won't cut it for the power levels you're shooting for. Also you're going to need head work. And cams.
I know you know all of this, but I'm saying it anyway, cause it took us nearly a year to get you to actually dyno.

Yes. As I said a few times I think I need cams, IM, and bigger IC Piping. BEGI IC piping for my S5 is 2". TWO INCH.

And I will settle for less power if I don't have to swap transmissions and diffs every day. One day too, my motor will die and it will die a lot sooner with 600hp. I just want to drive my damn car. I own four cars and two of them are off the fuking road. (the other is subie)

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Originally Posted by chpmnsws6 View Post
A few numbers were off, but in your favor. The drivetrain eats a percent of power and not just "30hp". Don't ask me why or how, I just know that's what it seems to do.

You also stated you'd throw 500rwhp on the dyno sheet. Now your back tracking by using math. Take a compliment when its handed to you and quit wearing sandles to a shop. I'm surprised they let you walk in with them.

Once upon a time I thought I would throw over 600hp on the sheet from the current setup. Not gonna happen without 100% IDC and 45psi.
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Old 08-15-2012, 03:06 PM   #3386
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Originally Posted by y8s View Post
serious suggestion:
sell hydra, replace with reverent-built ms3 that is designed to run all your whizbangs. allow brain and I to tune it and re-dyno at york automotive for ultimate wins.
I don't think it's the Hydra that's holding him back. I run a Hydra and made about 400 whp at around 21 psig (at 5,000'). Something else is the problem and he should fix that before changing anything else. When trouble-shooting, never change two things at once, or you'll almost never figure out what caused the original issue.
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Old 08-15-2012, 03:08 PM   #3387
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Originally Posted by DeerHunter View Post
I don't think it's the Hydra that's holding him back. I run a Hydra and made about 400 whp at around 21 psig (at 5,000'). Something else is the problem and he should fix that before changing anything else. When trouble-shooting, never change two things at once, or you'll almost never figure out what caused the original issue.
On what dyno, though? Are you the 2.0 stroker that FM has the charts for from their dyno?

This is a dyno issue, pure and simple. It wasn't set up right, wasn't run right, and just generally sucks.

FM's seemed to be good in terms of how it was run when i was on it, but i'm pretty convinced the numbers were hideously inflated.
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Old 08-15-2012, 03:25 PM   #3388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
No other log manifold GT3071 other than FM's has come close to 400. Realistically, I think I was 330-360hp with the GT3071.
Nickt93 did just that, and so did a few others.
Not saying Phil didn't fudge numbers, but it is what it is.
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Old 08-15-2012, 03:35 PM   #3389
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Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
Yes. As I said a few times I think I need cams, IM, and bigger IC Piping. BEGI IC piping for my S5 is 2". TWO INCH.
If you're measuring the boost at the IM, then you still should have comparable numbers. Your turbo puts in 35PSI at reasonably low temperatures. Yes, it will have to work a lot harder to do so through 2" piping, but the turbo working harder will not generate a huge power loss.
You may have to retard timing a little more and the outlet pressure will be higher, leading to less efficient filling etc., but still. 35PSI at the IM should net you more than what you were showing.
The stock 1.8l with 14PSI on a 2560 or some such can get you to 240hp. That's a total pressure of 29PSI. your additional 20PSI over that (50PSI total) is roughly 2/3rd more. That should get you roughly 1.67 x 240hp. That's 400hp. Adding port work, valves etc. I would expect 400hp or more.
You're losing sthg. somewhere and I don't think it's the IC piping, since you are getting the air into the intake. It's just not translating into hp.
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Old 08-15-2012, 03:44 PM   #3390
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Nickt93 did just that, and so did a few others.
Not saying Phil didn't fudge numbers, but it is what it is.
Whatever. A given motor and turbo etc can only flow so much air. Only so much variance between motors.

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Originally Posted by stefanst View Post
If you're measuring the boost at the IM, then you still should have comparable numbers. Your turbo puts in 35PSI at reasonably low temperatures. Yes, it will have to work a lot harder to do so through 2" piping, but the turbo working harder will not generate a huge power loss.
You may have to retard timing a little more and the outlet pressure will be higher, leading to less efficient filling etc., but still. 35PSI at the IM should net you more than what you were showing.
The stock 1.8l with 14PSI on a 2560 or some such can get you to 240hp. That's a total pressure of 29PSI. your additional 20PSI over that (50PSI total) is roughly 2/3rd more. That should get you roughly 1.67 x 240hp. That's 400hp. Adding port work, valves etc. I would expect 400hp or more.
You're losing sthg. somewhere and I don't think it's the IC piping, since you are getting the air into the intake. It's just not translating into hp.

Wut? That is my point. That bigger IC piping, intake manifold, cams would mean same power with lower boost.
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Old 08-15-2012, 04:04 PM   #3391
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
Look fellaz. Hydra EMS is not causing problems here. It is not responsible for peak tq @ 6000RPM or no dyno load or fueling fail. EMS is supposed to do 5 things:

Fuel
Timing
Idle
Meth
Knock detect

I would run my car on a slide ruler if it could do all that stuff. Get off the megasquirt dick. It's irrelevant in this situation.
whatever you say boss. all i know is my engine management is not a random number generator when I ask it for duty cycles. maybe you should look into that problem.
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Old 08-15-2012, 04:10 PM   #3392
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Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
Wut? That is my point. That bigger IC piping, intake manifold, cams would mean same power with lower boost.
Sorry - wasn't very clear here: All that really matters is the pressure in the IM (boost). At the exit of the turbo you may have 45PSI to get to the 35PSI in the IM. But that's not what you're measuring. So what you refer to as boost is after all the losses from the IC piping. And in the IM 35PSI at 100*F is all that matters.
So IC piping is NOT part of the equation 'same power with lower boost'. Intake manifold, cams, valves, cylinder head design, exhaust etc. ARE part of that equation. They are located AFTER the point where you measure the boost.
Hope that's more clear.
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Old 08-15-2012, 04:22 PM   #3393
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Originally Posted by y8s View Post
whatever you say boss. all i know is my engine management is not a random number generator when I ask it for duty cycles. maybe you should look into that problem.
His car runs like dog d!ck as confirmed by Soviet and has tons of issues needing to be ironed out and 99% of the people on earth think the Hydra is junk, BUT WHAT DO WE KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 08-15-2012, 04:23 PM   #3394
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Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
Whatever. A given motor and turbo etc can only flow so much air. Only so much variance between motors.
370whp vs 600whp

potato
pohtahtoh
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Old 08-15-2012, 05:00 PM   #3395
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Simplify the system. Ditch the meth for now. Get the turbo running 20 psi on pump gas reliably. Make sure the dual fuel system is working as it should. Get a good tune on turbo only at lower boost. Then add a single nozzle and go 50/50 meth water and tune it there.

Too much plumbing, too many variables. Gotta start removing some of the variables and get the car running right on a baseline and then add stuff back in.

IAG in Westminster are good Suby guys with a dynojet. Go there.
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Old 08-15-2012, 05:08 PM   #3396
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Originally Posted by stefanst View Post
Sorry - wasn't very clear here: All that really matters is the pressure in the IM (boost). At the exit of the turbo you may have 45PSI to get to the 35PSI in the IM. But that's not what you're measuring. So what you refer to as boost is after all the losses from the IC piping. And in the IM 35PSI at 100*F is all that matters.
So IC piping is NOT part of the equation 'same power with lower boost'. Intake manifold, cams, valves, cylinder head design, exhaust etc. ARE part of that equation. They are located AFTER the point where you measure the boost.
Hope that's more clear.
Well that is a very good point. Thank you very much for explaining it to me. One less thing to change out then. The 366 is happy to push over 50psi so I think I will be ok.


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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
His car runs like dog d!ck as confirmed by Soviet and has tons of issues needing to be ironed out and 99% of the people on earth think the Hydra is junk, BUT WHAT DO WE KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!
STFU you 300hp peon. I have 50 hp more!

If I had my choice of EMS, I would run the new AEM and shiit all over dicks. AEM knock detection is fantastic plus I can trigger my toaster to darken my bread according to my boost level. Also also have you seen their frikken wideband/boost failsafe gauge? Frukking awesome! And and and and when they come out with the driveshaft dyno for import guess who is going to get one?


BTW. I have big valves and ported head.
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Old 08-15-2012, 05:12 PM   #3397
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The hydra is fine, it just sucks ***** to tune. The issue is that dyno. I've never seen it before but from the dyno graphs it is not setup correctly. Its at the very least not loading correctly, an easy setting to **** up on load varying dynos, and its possibly not pickup up RPM correctly. Get the bugs worked out of the car and get it on a dynojet with the weather station on. At that point you know you'll be getting reliable numbers with no operator error since there is no way to change how the dyno loads up without changing the weight of the rollers. And you'll theoretically be able to compare dynos with anyone else who dyno'ed on a dynojet with the weather station on.

On the IC piping, if he's making 35 at the manifold and 45 at the compressor, he's using more turbine shaft work, which means is waste gate is not as open, which means he has more pressure in the exhaust manifold, and that hurts power. It also means he's heating the air more than he needs to.
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Old 08-15-2012, 05:17 PM   #3398
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an engine management system is not "fine" if it's not possible to tune it easily.

either find a tuner (element tuning and $$$)
or find a system you can more easily tune.

I dont think the hydra is impossible to tune, I just feel there are easier options.
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Old 08-15-2012, 05:19 PM   #3399
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Well saying sucks ***** is a bit harsh, more like mildly annoying. Though I constantly humble myself by looking at the 90's haltech we have that you have to tune with dos, and shudder.
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Old 08-15-2012, 05:23 PM   #3400
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Min? Listen? HahahhahahahhhHhahahahhahahahhaa
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