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Old 03-24-2015, 04:34 AM   #1001
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Believe it or not a co-worker and I were discussing this today. If it turns out I can't drive stick for like the next 9 months or something stupid this might be closer to reality than you can possibly imagine.
One mailing list I'm on, a guy posted the $1K down (after rebate), $85/month deal for a 3-year lease and 40 club racers leased one in the next 2-3 days. They cleaned out 3 or 4 Fiat dealers. I mentioned it to Jason C, and he leased 2 of them!

--Ian
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Old 03-24-2015, 02:31 PM   #1002
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Do not let them give you a cortisone shot in your tendon. It will cause damage down the road. One of my best friends and mother-in-law both have tendon issues from getting one. They didn't find out until later when they consulted another doctor about on going issues.
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Old 03-25-2015, 04:35 PM   #1003
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Do not let them give you a cortisone shot in your tendon. It will cause damage down the road. One of my best friends and mother-in-law both have tendon issues from getting one. They didn't find out until later when they consulted another doctor about on going issues.
Thanks, I'll keep this in mind. The swelling has gone down considerably so I don't like I have half a squash ball tucked under my skin anymore. I'm not the biggest fan of needles anyway.
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Old 03-25-2015, 04:41 PM   #1004
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So I just noticed that Mocal makes the thermostatic oil cooler sandwich plate we all know and love in a 200F version as well as the 180F version. (There may also be a 220F version out there somewhere but I can't find a PN.) I'm actually thinking 200F is a much better choice based on what I've been reading. Can anyone think of a reason this would be a bad idea?

I'm planning on running the "behind the radiator" configuration that we all seem to be gravitating toward recently.
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Old 03-25-2015, 04:54 PM   #1005
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200 is a great idea. I don't know why more sandwich plates don't use that as standard. I like cooking off the water in my oil while street driving.

Once you're on track in the heat, you're going to be running 220-240 on oil temps anyway, and at those temps 180 or 200 bypass will be fully closed (i.e., all oil going to cooler).

Last edited by hornetball; 03-25-2015 at 05:17 PM.
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Old 03-25-2015, 05:07 PM   #1006
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That's pretty much exactly my thinking as well. The 200F version is like $10 more than the 180F version so not really a big deal. I think I'm going to go with the 200F.

I'm still at an impasse as to if I want to keep my sender sandwich plate in place, and if so, if it should be mounted between the mocal and the block, or the mocal and and filter. I can also eliminate it altogether and stick my temp sender in the pan instead.

If my understanding of how the path works is correct, then:
  • Before the mocal gives me the temp before the cooler, possibly the hottest location
  • In the pan gives me more of an aggregate temp for the entire system, possibly low due to pan cooling
  • After the mocal gives me the temp that is going into the engine, like what the components will actually see

I see merits for each of these locations, but I'm unsure where to put the stupid thing. I've read the comments in Jeffbuc's thread and I've read Savington's "everything you ever wanted to know about oil coolers but were afraid to ask" thread as well, so don't throw links at me I just need to make a decision and go for it.

Speaking of decisions, I ordered a -10 male flange fitting for the CHRA drain today

Slowly but surely I'll get this all plumbed up and happy.
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Old 03-25-2015, 05:22 PM   #1007
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I have mine in the sandwich plate pre-cooler and it works well. Figure that's the best place to quickly highlight a problem. If you put it post-cooler, there might be enough cooling capacity to mask an issue for little while -- just guessing though. ??
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Old 03-25-2015, 05:45 PM   #1008
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I see merits for each of these locations, but I'm unsure where to put the stupid thing. I've read the comments in Jeffbuc's thread and I've read Savington's "everything you ever wanted to know about oil coolers but were afraid to ask" thread as well, so don't throw links at me I just need to make a decision and go for it.
You could always install three senders and three gauges! ALLOFIT!

I would do post-cooler, because that's what really matters. The only reason to look at pre-cooler is to tell how well your cooler is working.

--Ian
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Old 03-25-2015, 06:02 PM   #1009
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You could always install three senders and three gauges! ALLOFIT!

I would do post-cooler, because that's what really matters. The only reason to look at pre-cooler is to tell how well your cooler is working.

--Ian
Isn't pre-cooler the better way to understand if the oil is getting too hot in the engine? A similar concept to how the coolant sensor is at the back of the head and not on the lower radiator hose.
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Old 03-25-2015, 06:33 PM   #1010
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You could always install three senders and three gauges! ALLOFIT!
You know my crazy, don't tempt me.

Also, I saw you were running with a Lemons team up at Sears last weekend! I (almost) change tires like a bauce. When both my feet are working I guess I shouldn't volunteer for things at this point.
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I would do post-cooler, because that's what really matters. The only reason to look at pre-cooler is to tell how well your cooler is working.
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Isn't pre-cooler the better way to understand if the oil is getting too hot in the engine? A similar concept to how the coolant sensor is at the back of the head and not on the lower radiator hose.
See, I agree with both of these approaches. That's mah prablem.

The pan is still off the motor at this point so I'm going to ask Gesso if he can weld in an 1/8"NPT bung along with the -10 Male for the turbo return, so the pan for the oil temp will always be an option going forward. Once the 200F mocal gets here I'll start mocking things up. The nice thing about the plate is I can always change it around if I decide I'm insane. (I'm insane)
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Old 03-25-2015, 06:34 PM   #1011
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Isn't pre-cooler the better way to understand if the oil is getting too hot in the engine? A similar concept to how the coolant sensor is at the back of the head and not on the lower radiator hose.
Post-cooler tells you the viscosity of the oil when it goes into the bearings, IMHO that's the most valuable information.

Pre-cooler or in-the-pan gives you a sense of the max temp the oil gets to, which should tell you if the oil is reaching temperatures that will cause it to break down and shorten its life.

--Ian
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Old 03-25-2015, 06:36 PM   #1012
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And I believe both are valid parameters to monitor. I'm still undecided
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Old 03-25-2015, 06:39 PM   #1013
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You know my crazy, don't tempt me.

Also, I saw you were running with a Lemons team up at Sears last weekend! I (almost) change tires like a bauce. When both my feet are working I guess I shouldn't volunteer for things at this point.
I agree on welding the pan while it's off the car, you can always plug it if you don't want to use it.

Come to think of it, senders are cheap. You could install 2 or 3 senders, one gauge, and use a switch. That'd let you leave it on one particular setting but periodically flip to the other one to validate that it has the delta from the first one that you expect it to.

Yeah, a friend of mine runs an E36 there, was looking for drivers, and talked me into doing it. It was... nuts. 180 cars on 2.3 miles of Sears Point is a lot. Still, I had fun!

I didn't know the Mocal plate came in a 200F version, I agree it's a better choice. I'm actually tempted to swap mine.

--Ian
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Old 03-25-2015, 06:48 PM   #1014
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Mocal Sandwich Plate 20mm Thread w/ 200 Degree T-Stat ~ MOC-SP1FT-HT. They refer to it as the "High Temp" version.

I would assume you could just buy the little pill thing in the thermostat as it is replaceable. Just buy the 200F replacement rather than the 180F. I'd ask Racerpartswholesale or Bat-Inc as they seem to be the only distributors in North America. I know Andrew also has Mocal stuff so he might be able to get you a PN as well. Just a couple thoughts
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Old 03-25-2015, 07:42 PM   #1015
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Mine will be pre cooler so I can accurately compare temps to before the cooler was installed.

I have seen 245 or so oil temps on warmish days. I'd like to see no higher than 230 hot temps once the.cooler is installed.

The multi sender switch deal is intriguing but will have to wait until after my NZ expat adventure I think. Last project for the car this year will be hooking up the oil cooler.
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Old 03-25-2015, 07:49 PM   #1016
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Multiple senders and a switch occurred to me as well. I'd put one in the pan and one in the sandwich between the mocal plate and the filter. That should give me all the data I want.
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Old 03-25-2015, 08:00 PM   #1017
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Quote:
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Mine will be pre cooler so I can accurately compare temps to before the cooler was installed.

I have seen 245 or so oil temps on warmish days. I'd like to see no higher than 230 hot temps once the.cooler is installed.

The multi sender switch deal is intriguing but will have to wait until after my NZ expat adventure I think. Last project for the car this year will be hooking up the oil cooler.
That makes sense to me as well. I can see perks to both pre and post, but I would personally be more interested in peek oil temp.
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Old 03-31-2015, 06:24 PM   #1018
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I got a new shoe today!



Good news is no surgery, bad news is that I get the boot for the next month. This will of course prevent me from driving the Miata or the Subaru. Bugger.
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Old 03-31-2015, 07:18 PM   #1019
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Make them give you a second one. Then, stomp around and tell people they are making you into Robocop from the ground up.
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Old 03-31-2015, 09:43 PM   #1020
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Man, I'm getting the RoboCop comments from everywhere with this thing Poor Miss Lola kitty won't come anywhere near the boot though :(

Inactivity has forced me to start ordering the last couple pieces I need for the engine and turbo plumbing just to keep myself from going stir crazy. As a result I've got an inbox full of tracking numbers this afternoon, including one for a 49lb package from Lake Forest, CA
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