Exhaust manifolds
09-25-2011, 09:34 PM
#1
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Exhaust manifolds
OK, I'm sure this may have been covered here a million times before, but I'll ask anyway and take the heat as required.
I am not a complete noob, and have a fair amount of experience with engines and such but none with Turbo Miatas. I have a beater 1.6L Miata that I bought a few months ago.
I also have a turbo in my possession. It is a Mitsubishi TD04L and is brand new. It has a T3 turbine inlet bolt pattern but the inlet area is smaller than a T3 (read the hole is smaller so it will cause some restriction - but who cares).
In any case, I would like to do a homebrew turbo setup using this turbo. In the interest of cheapness (because if I wasn't cheap and fond of creating additional work for myself, then I would just buy someone's turbo kit and install it!), I am looking for a suitable exhaust manifold.
So, here is my criteria:
1) Cheap as possible.
2) Isn't going to crack in 2 months.
3) T3 bolt pattern.
So, I'm looking for the cheapest yet still durable turbo manifold to fit either a 1.6 or 1.8. Obviously I have a 1.6 in my car, but I figure that if I'm going to turbocharge this thing it WILL eventually blow up - and escort GT motors are cheap replacements, so maybe I should just start with a 1.8 and sell the 1.6 as a runner.
So, what are my options?
I am not a complete noob, and have a fair amount of experience with engines and such but none with Turbo Miatas. I have a beater 1.6L Miata that I bought a few months ago.
I also have a turbo in my possession. It is a Mitsubishi TD04L and is brand new. It has a T3 turbine inlet bolt pattern but the inlet area is smaller than a T3 (read the hole is smaller so it will cause some restriction - but who cares).
In any case, I would like to do a homebrew turbo setup using this turbo. In the interest of cheapness (because if I wasn't cheap and fond of creating additional work for myself, then I would just buy someone's turbo kit and install it!), I am looking for a suitable exhaust manifold.
So, here is my criteria:
1) Cheap as possible.
2) Isn't going to crack in 2 months.
3) T3 bolt pattern.
So, I'm looking for the cheapest yet still durable turbo manifold to fit either a 1.6 or 1.8. Obviously I have a 1.6 in my car, but I figure that if I'm going to turbocharge this thing it WILL eventually blow up - and escort GT motors are cheap replacements, so maybe I should just start with a 1.8 and sell the 1.6 as a runner.
So, what are my options?
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09-25-2011, 09:36 PM
#2
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Forgot to mention that the turbo I have is the same one as used here: http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...ocharging.aspx
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09-26-2011, 08:00 PM
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Ha! Yeah that's an old dodge turbo from a lebaron/duster.
Just last week, I almost got my hands on one. From what I've read, they use slightly different spacing on the bolt pattern which makes them hard to use for other applications.
I think you'll be better off buying a new chinacharger than trying to fab up a new manifold that will fit on a miata. I use a begi log manifold on my nb and it seems to be a strong, reliable, cheap(er) option.
As for the 1.8 vs. 1.6 debate...I'm not touching that subject.
Just last week, I almost got my hands on one. From what I've read, they use slightly different spacing on the bolt pattern which makes them hard to use for other applications.
I think you'll be better off buying a new chinacharger than trying to fab up a new manifold that will fit on a miata. I use a begi log manifold on my nb and it seems to be a strong, reliable, cheap(er) option.
As for the 1.8 vs. 1.6 debate...I'm not touching that subject.
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09-26-2011, 08:42 PM
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I'm with you when you say that it would be better to buy a cheap chinese turbo than to make my own manifold. I may be cheap, but I think making a thickwall manifold myself is beyond my welding skills. Note that anything I make myself wouldn't meet my criteria #2 from above 'cause booger welds aren't your friend on a high temperature AND highly stressed part.
But, I do know that the turbo I have does use a T3 bolt pattern. How do I know? Well, I bought a manifold with a T3 outlet on it for my Honda civic, and my turbo bolts right up to it. Of course, I changed directions on that project and went high compression NA for my Honda, so never ended up using the turbo. Hence me wanting to put it to good use.
Keep the advice coming...
But, I do know that the turbo I have does use a T3 bolt pattern. How do I know? Well, I bought a manifold with a T3 outlet on it for my Honda civic, and my turbo bolts right up to it. Of course, I changed directions on that project and went high compression NA for my Honda, so never ended up using the turbo. Hence me wanting to put it to good use.
Keep the advice coming...
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09-27-2011, 11:36 PM
#10
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That manifold will *work*
Will it bolt up to your turbo? If it is in fact a t3 bolt pattern turbo.. then yes
Will it flow well? Probably not but iron manifolds like that will be much more reliable than stainless manifolds in the same price range.
Will it bolt up to your turbo? If it is in fact a t3 bolt pattern turbo.. then yes
Will it flow well? Probably not but iron manifolds like that will be much more reliable than stainless manifolds in the same price range.
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09-28-2011, 06:13 AM
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So, for 1.8L, how about this from OBX?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OBX-R...#ht_2163wt_935
It says 16 gauge material thickness. Is that enough, or will it be a cracked POS?
Also, it is hard to tell if the manifold flange is threaded to accept studs, or is thru hole for bolts. Anyone know?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OBX-R...#ht_2163wt_935
It says 16 gauge material thickness. Is that enough, or will it be a cracked POS?
Also, it is hard to tell if the manifold flange is threaded to accept studs, or is thru hole for bolts. Anyone know?
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09-28-2011, 08:07 AM
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ARTech Fabrication... http://artechfabrication.com/index.php
There's not an ebay manifold that won't crack - get it done right the 1st time. Speaking from experience here. Wish I had gone to Abe the 1st time, but no - I cheaped out like you and have gone through 2 cast T3 Taco manifolds in 2 yrs - that's only 7 track weekends. Just search my build thread to see yerself - last page has some pics of the taco clone he's making for me so I didn't have to re-fab a DP...
There's not an ebay manifold that won't crack - get it done right the 1st time. Speaking from experience here. Wish I had gone to Abe the 1st time, but no - I cheaped out like you and have gone through 2 cast T3 Taco manifolds in 2 yrs - that's only 7 track weekends. Just search my build thread to see yerself - last page has some pics of the taco clone he's making for me so I didn't have to re-fab a DP...
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09-28-2011, 07:00 PM
#16
I'm the ebay guy and I wouldn't even think of buying my hotside parts from there. Keep in mind, you get what you pay for.
Here's a few pictures comparing my old FM3 cast manifold and 2.5" dp with the new ARTech pieces. Enjoy!
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09-28-2011, 09:09 PM
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God damn, I never get tired of looking at ARTech's work. If you're going to spend wise money, spend it on MegaSquirt and schedule-40 hot parts. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt, and the tow truck.
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09-28-2011, 10:06 PM
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No doubt that workmanship looks excellent. It also looks pretty expensive, and MAY not be the cheapest way to get a reliable manifold. Or, maybe it is, that's why I'm here looking for some advice.
So, how much did the manifold and downpipe cost? And, do they have jigs available, so one could just call them up and they would make another set the same?
Also - anyone else feel free to chime in with your most cost effective yet robust solution.
So, how much did the manifold and downpipe cost? And, do they have jigs available, so one could just call them up and they would make another set the same?
Also - anyone else feel free to chime in with your most cost effective yet robust solution.
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09-28-2011, 10:14 PM
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This BEGI system looks to be of decent quality, but is $400.
http://www.bellengineering.net/produ...products_id=33
Alternatives?
http://www.bellengineering.net/produ...products_id=33
Alternatives?
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09-28-2011, 10:36 PM
#20
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Maybe because it's me (bask in my awesomeness) but Abe's T3 Taco clone is roughly $350. It's the first Taco-clone he has made so prices may or may not be the same. It's worth every penny to me not having to redo my DP b/c I had chosen a shitty T3 manifold in the first place... 
Also to add - yeah, his website lacks, but I rather have someone who's a mad-man with a tig welder. Search, there's plenty of sick exhaust sysems on MT that's his handy work. All it takes is an e-mail to get a price...
Also to add - yeah, his website lacks, but I rather have someone who's a mad-man with a tig welder. Search, there's plenty of sick exhaust sysems on MT that's his handy work. All it takes is an e-mail to get a price...
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