diy "turbo no hit block" '00 BP miata - Page 11 - Miata Turbo Forum -Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 12-26-2014, 08:18 PM   #201
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on the road...



various steps of spark table "improvement"



I know the numbers aren't real, but there's a huge difference between logs!
inb4 same road, same condition, same boost: 11 psi
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Old 12-26-2014, 10:25 PM   #202
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Glue.
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Old 12-27-2014, 03:10 AM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
Glue.


However, with a cool head, I decided to go with 8.8's
I think it's not overbuilding, just reliability

especially because I'm obviously not a good tuner
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Old 12-27-2014, 04:26 AM   #204
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Oh snap.
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Old 12-27-2014, 10:08 AM   #205
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Damn, that's the second one that goes up in smoke....interesting build
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Old 12-27-2014, 10:35 AM   #206
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Spark table doesn't seem all that aggressive from what others have posted. Why do we think so much detonation?
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Old 12-27-2014, 10:48 AM   #207
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where you runnung LPG when it went bang? LPG is far more prone to knock...
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Old 12-27-2014, 12:54 PM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjeerd View Post
where you runnung LPG when it went bang? LPG is far more prone to knock...
The propane I'm using is rated from 100 to 110 octane (97%+ pure), while the gasoline I'm using is 94-97 octane, so I can safely add timing when running lpg

I was running gasoline btw...
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Old 12-27-2014, 01:01 PM   #209
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the octane number is higher but the temperatures are way higher, I wouldnt add timing when burning LPG, I would pull...
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Old 12-27-2014, 01:38 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DNMakinson View Post
Spark table doesn't seem all that aggressive from what others have posted. Why do we think so much detonation?
That's just 1 piece of the puzzle and even then that's not a conservative map. Also looks like he was near the limit. Also he was clearly knocking. Also he was clearly having issues.
lol
To be completely honest, I'm impressed it lasted this long
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Old 12-27-2014, 01:42 PM   #211
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I would worry about the base timing being slightly off if I was using an aggressive timing map. Not much room for error.

Is the lpg octane RON or MON or the average?
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Old 12-27-2014, 02:11 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjeerd View Post
the octane number is higher but the temperatures are way higher, I wouldnt add timing when burning LPG, I would pull...
Got it
When I run lpg on boost afr's are high 10's and only with ebc off (140 kPa or 5.8 psi)
in fact when I log egt's I can see that are the same as running gasoline, but with 12.5 afr
the downside is less power everywhere

There are two ways to run lpg allofit (and use the 110 octane benefit):
water/meth injection 50-50
liquid injection lpg (like vialle or icom): in this way the lpg enters in the manifold in liquid state, and his phase transition (at atmospheric pressure is a gas) absorbes heat from the sistem very quickly.

The main difference between liquid lpg injection and gasoline is that the excees of gasoline remains liquid during the combustion and becomes gas (substracting heat) only when temperature rise enough, preserving the Al of the head and piston from melting

When I have the car back on the road and tuned, I wanna try this system.
If I broke another engine, it means that w/i is a better choice. If it will survive, well, we discover a new, greener and cheaper than e85 method to run allofit

because all this is a game for me, it's only a car!
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Old 12-27-2014, 02:26 PM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
That's just 1 piece of the puzzle and even then that's not a conservative map. Also looks like he was near the limit. Also he was clearly knocking. Also he was clearly having issues.
lol
To be completely honest, I'm impressed it lasted this long
Are you talking about "knock in" in the last log?
I'm not sure if it was really knock or background noises..
when I (voluntarily) caused knock at 4500 rpm (160 kpa) the knock in log was exactly the same, with no peaks, but the ecu pulled istantly two degrees of timing, and the "knock" light turned on
this was pretty strange... but with 26 degrees of spark advance at 160 kPa I'm sure the oil escaped from the bearing causing a direct-hit

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
I would worry about the base timing being slightly off if I was using an aggressive timing map. Not much room for error.

Is the lpg octane RON or MON or the average?
I obviously checked with a timing light before boosting the car

the mon/ron of standard propane selled in usa is 90-110, but is 90%+ pure
what I use is 97%+.
customs laboratory checks ordinarily ron levels, and is usually 105-108
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Old 12-27-2014, 02:31 PM   #214
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well in that case you likely simply exceeded the torque limit of the oem noodle rods
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Old 12-27-2014, 02:53 PM   #215
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So when is the new motor going in...?
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Old 12-27-2014, 04:07 PM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DNA54 View Post
Got it
When I run lpg on boost afr's are high 10's and only with ebc off (140 kPa or 5.8 psi)
in fact when I log egt's I can see that are the same as running gasoline, but with 12.5 afr
the downside is less power everywhere

There are two ways to run lpg allofit (and use the 110 octane benefit):
water/meth injection 50-50
liquid injection lpg (like vialle or icom): in this way the lpg enters in the manifold in liquid state, and his phase transition (at atmospheric pressure is a gas) absorbes heat from the sistem very quickly.

The main difference between liquid lpg injection and gasoline is that the excees of gasoline remains liquid during the combustion and becomes gas (substracting heat) only when temperature rise enough, preserving the Al of the head and piston from melting

When I have the car back on the road and tuned, I wanna try this system.
If I broke another engine, it means that w/i is a better choice. If it will survive, well, we discover a new, greener and cheaper than e85 method to run allofit

because all this is a game for me, it's only a car!
I'm very curious cause LPG is so much easier to buy around here....where as e85 is really scarse
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Old 12-27-2014, 04:22 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyP3821 View Post
So when is the new motor going in...?
ehm...
tomorrow I will know if the head survived ( I hope so...), and on monday I will go to the machine shop with the spare block to see if it is usable with 84mm pistons.
If yes and yes, I can build the engine in one-two mounths
if not and yes two-three mounths
and so on

money
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Old 12-30-2014, 04:57 AM   #218
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ok, little update:
the spare block is usable with oversized +1mm supertech pistons.
The head is gone.

spare block going at the machine shop



driver side window



passenger side window





I found half of the piston with rings on it in the cylinder, but without the rod lol













my neighbour's cats this morning:

Attached Thumbnails
diy "turbo no hit block" '00 BP miata-20141229_090003_zps8496f11e.jpg   diy "turbo no hit block" '00 BP miata-20141229_211437_zps684a38e3.jpg   diy "turbo no hit block" '00 BP miata-20141229_211335_zpsb7c7800c.jpg   diy "turbo no hit block" '00 BP miata-20141229_211422_zpscd642eff.jpg   diy "turbo no hit block" '00 BP miata-20141229_211429_zpscf6b6d9d.jpg  

diy "turbo no hit block" '00 BP miata-20141229_211341_zpsf5cb8cd5.jpg   diy "turbo no hit block" '00 BP miata-20141229_211402_zps236b95bf.jpg   diy "turbo no hit block" '00 BP miata-20141229_211407_zps25651fb7.jpg   diy "turbo no hit block" '00 BP miata-20141229_211411_zps7ac8041c.jpg   diy "turbo no hit block" '00 BP miata-20141230_081450_zps109ea843.jpg  

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Old 12-30-2014, 09:40 AM   #219
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Your neighbor has a bouquet of cats as the centerpiece for his table.

That's a classic rod failure but I think the block will be fine.
A little JB Weld and some gentle honing should make it like new.
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Old 12-30-2014, 09:53 AM   #220
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now that is some proper carnage
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