Flow Force injector help - Page 5 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


DIY Turbo Discussion greddy on a 1.8? homebrew kit?

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-08-2016, 04:40 PM   #81
Sadfab Union President
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,690
Total Cats: 115
Default

I did math for Ms2 guys and shitty linear deadtime voltage comp.

values at voltages...

1.57 @ 11V
1.35 @ 12V
1.15 @ 13V
1.01 @ 14V
.90 @ 15V
.82 @ 16V

That gives us five 1V increment steps.

From 11-12V, .21ms added time
12-13V .20ms
13-14V .14ms
14-15V .10ms
15-16v .07ms

Average is 0.144ms/V. I was using. This is more than what was recommended last thread (.116ms/V) but less than what I ended up using which was 0.16ms/V

Autotune works much better using correct values, especially on low map cells I was having trouble with before. I let autotune go all the way down to my lowest map cells and it handled them beautifully. I also used nearly a sixteenth to an eighth of a tank less fuel on a 60 mile trip to Topeka and back. I've gotta remember to reset my odometer next time, I might be able to call this thing economical again
deezums is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2016, 06:45 PM   #82
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Posts: 871
Total Cats: 100
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deezums View Post
I did math for Ms2 guys and shitty linear deadtime voltage comp.

values at voltages...

1.57 @ 11V
1.35 @ 12V
1.15 @ 13V
1.01 @ 14V
.90 @ 15V
.82 @ 16V

That gives us five 1V increment steps.

From 11-12V, .21ms added time
12-13V .20ms
13-14V .14ms
14-15V .10ms
15-16v .07ms

Average is 0.144ms/V. I was using. This is more than what was recommended last thread (.116ms/V) but less than what I ended up using which was 0.16ms/V

Autotune works much better using correct values, especially on low map cells I was having trouble with before. I let autotune go all the way down to my lowest map cells and it handled them beautifully. I also used nearly a sixteenth to an eighth of a tank less fuel on a 60 mile trip to Topeka and back. I've gotta remember to reset my odometer next time, I might be able to call this thing economical again
Thanks Deezums!
sonofthehill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 02:39 AM   #83
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
nigelt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Carmel Valley, CA
Posts: 527
Total Cats: 55
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by deezums View Post
Nigelt, would it be possible to test these injectors deadtime at 4/5 bar? It's kinda gonna be necessary for anyone wanting more than ~220whp on e85 with these injectors.

Thanks for the data!
Have at 'er!


Attached Thumbnails
Flow Force injector help-80-image_202016_03_08_20at_2011_38_11_20pm_f9b0c593abc646b89129cc133970e7057289d733.png  
nigelt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 02:48 AM   #84
Sadfab Union President
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,690
Total Cats: 115
Default

You're the best! Thanks man!

MS2 ms/V numbers...

4bar .186-.202
5bar .21-.231

I'm going to use the smaller of the two numbers, they're the average of the normal operating range. Gets large fast if you average in those super low voltage values....
deezums is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 08:17 AM   #85
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 125
Total Cats: 12
Default

I'm sure this is a noob question. on a 2000 do I use the 4BAR offsets and on the required fuel calculation take my actual flow numbers *1.3 with a dead time @13.2=1.261
dr_boone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 11:57 AM   #86
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Posts: 871
Total Cats: 100
Default

That is what I am running since I have the 4 bar return less system. I also made the voltage correction .16 since I think my car usually runs between 13 & 14v.
Thanks for the new data Nigel, my car is running great.
sonofthehill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 07:17 PM   #87
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
nigelt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Carmel Valley, CA
Posts: 527
Total Cats: 55
Default

My car runs amazingly now.
Update deadtime -> update flow rate (+4%) -> autotune entire table for half an hour.
Done.

Thanks for all your feedback!
nigelt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2016, 07:19 PM   #88
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
nigelt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Carmel Valley, CA
Posts: 527
Total Cats: 55
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_boone View Post
I'm sure this is a noob question. on a 2000 do I use the 4BAR offsets and on the required fuel calculation take my actual flow numbers *1.3 with a dead time @13.2=1.261
[edit - misread]

It's not 1.3x to go from 3 bar to 4 bar, it's actually 1.165x

Last edited by nigelt; 03-09-2016 at 07:49 PM.
nigelt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2016, 11:13 AM   #89
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
wackbards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Seattle
Posts: 356
Total Cats: 28
Default

Pulled this from my build thread, but figured I should just ask here. I'm running ms2 on a DIYPNP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wackbards View Post
I'm sorting out my map for the FF610 injectors I ordered in February. Based on the recommendations from this thread, I'm running the following:

dead time = 1.179ms@13.2v
battery correction = .144v/ms

I've multiplied my static flow published on the cards I received with the injectors by 1.04. Here are the injector serial numbers, published flow, and corrected flow

serial # published corrected
f6ak43 609cc 633.36cc
f6ak49 614cc 638.56cc
f6ak55 609cc 633.36cc
f6ak62 610cc 634.40cc

the average corrected flow is 634.92cc. I input 634cc into tunerstudio.

does this seem sane?
wackbards is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2016, 11:55 AM   #90
Senior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: SF Bay Area, CA
Posts: 871
Total Cats: 100
Default

Yes.
I run .16ms/v and I think I told TS my injectors were about 700cc since I run 60psi fuel pressure. Came up with a req fuel of about 4 IIRC.
sonofthehill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2016, 12:57 AM   #91
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
wackbards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Seattle
Posts: 356
Total Cats: 28
Default

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I am going to make a correction to my dead time though. I couldn't reconcile the values Deezums posted, and those Nigelt posted. Turns out I was adding .2v x .144ms/v to go from 1.15ms@13v to 1.179ms@13.2v instead of subtracting it. I'm going to go ahead and use 1.124ms.
wackbards is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2016, 02:31 PM   #92
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: North Central MA
Posts: 57
Total Cats: 3
Default

If I'm running these with a stock MSM fuel system, would I need to be using the 4 bar or 5 bar settings?

I've read that the MSM fuel system runs around 60psi at idle (4 bar) and 70psi differential pressure, but like anything I read on the internet, I'm suspect of it's validity.
TheIglu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2016, 02:39 PM   #93
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 33,795
Total Cats: 2,116
Default

its the same as all the other NB's
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2016, 09:15 PM   #94
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: NorthWest NJ
Posts: 877
Total Cats: 36
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nigelt View Post
I've just sent an injector off for linearity and latency testing at a different shop, so it will be interesting to see whether the results differ from the dead times we've been working from.

I also did some of my own testing and the results confound me. Maybe one of you can help interpret this in a useful or meaningful way? The test process was to run 1500 RPM at different pulse widths starting at 5ms and going down until nothing squirts out. Around 2ms the steps are 0.1 ms apart for a decent amount of precision. The machine was running at 12V.




If you do a regression of the linear section, it intercepts at pretty darn close to x=0, which makes no sense at all.
Wheee! Necropost!

Anyway. I have seen the updated dead times everywhere from the injectors you sent off for this test. Any chance of getting a graph of the linearity test? I am finding out the hard way these are not perfect injectors for every Miata, since I am waaaay into the non linear region trying to idle/overrun on my batch fire 1.6 doing 2 squirts per cycle. So I am hoping I can use the small pulse width feature on the MS3x to make them work.
x_25 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ME221 Now has Autotune and Long Term Fuel Trim Tables Motorsport-Electronics ECUs and Tuning 0 09-05-2015 08:02 AM
Autotune removing fuel blaen99 MEGAsquirt 16 10-01-2012 01:27 PM
Autotuning fuel sequential vs batch injection miatauser884 ECUs and Tuning 10 11-06-2011 07:12 PM
Tuning in NJ area 93turboNA MEGAsquirt 1 07-30-2011 03:31 PM
Tuning with autotune richard_ha MEGAsquirt 50 09-27-2007 09:48 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:05 AM.