Lets argue about VGT/VNT Diesel Turbos on a gas motor.
10-08-2013, 07:04 AM
#42
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 20,652
Total Cats: 3,011
I have an HX55 in my garage and it isn't quite that large from what I remember. You do know that when they get that big they often have a mounting pad that bolts to the block to support the weight of the turbo, right? I guess that is self evident.
So much for weight balance in your car, hahaha!
So much for weight balance in your car, hahaha!
Reply
0
0
10-08-2013, 09:33 AM
#44
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 648
Total Cats: 216
On behalf of the hyper-homophobic SuperTrav, thanks for clarifying that.
The Cobra arrived a bit less "complete" than expected. (Note to self; next time just fly in and check the car out first; people, even friends, have very different interpretations of the word "complete".) It's half torn apart as we put an injected 5.0 in it and install a proper wiring harness. It looks like the car was nicely built up to a certain point and then hurriedly slapped together at the end. It can be corrected, but it sucks a little. At least I've got the wheels and tires and the suspension finally sorted out.
Yeah, I obviously can't hang this beast off the manifold. The good news is that with the huge engine setback there's plenty of room up front to bracket off the heads where the ps/AC/air pump used to live.
He says he doesn't know. SuperTrav eats really clean (he's a vegetarian) and lifts like a man possessed. (He's a big proponent of High Intensity Training- ridiculous weights, low counts, super slow reps. Negatives and statics. 30 minutes, four times a week.) The dude is freaky strong, which comes in handy around the shop. He's in charge of Picking Heavy **** Up, Accounts Recievables and Complaint Resolution.
The Cobra arrived a bit less "complete" than expected. (Note to self; next time just fly in and check the car out first; people, even friends, have very different interpretations of the word "complete".) It's half torn apart as we put an injected 5.0 in it and install a proper wiring harness. It looks like the car was nicely built up to a certain point and then hurriedly slapped together at the end. It can be corrected, but it sucks a little. At least I've got the wheels and tires and the suspension finally sorted out.
I have an HX55 in my garage and it isn't quite that large from what I remember. You do know that when they get that big they often have a mounting pad that bolts to the block to support the weight of the turbo, right? I guess that is self evident.
So much for weight balance in your car, hahaha!
So much for weight balance in your car, hahaha!
He says he doesn't know. SuperTrav eats really clean (he's a vegetarian) and lifts like a man possessed. (He's a big proponent of High Intensity Training- ridiculous weights, low counts, super slow reps. Negatives and statics. 30 minutes, four times a week.) The dude is freaky strong, which comes in handy around the shop. He's in charge of Picking Heavy **** Up, Accounts Recievables and Complaint Resolution.
Reply
0
0
10-08-2013, 04:02 PM
#46
On behalf of the hyper-homophobic SuperTrav, thanks for clarifying that.
He says he doesn't know. SuperTrav eats really clean (he's a vegetarian) and lifts like a man possessed. (He's a big proponent of High Intensity Training- ridiculous weights, low counts, super slow reps. Negatives and statics. 30 minutes, four times a week.) The dude is freaky strong, which comes in handy around the shop. He's in charge of Picking Heavy **** Up, Accounts Recievables and Complaint Resolution.
He says he doesn't know. SuperTrav eats really clean (he's a vegetarian) and lifts like a man possessed. (He's a big proponent of High Intensity Training- ridiculous weights, low counts, super slow reps. Negatives and statics. 30 minutes, four times a week.) The dude is freaky strong, which comes in handy around the shop. He's in charge of Picking Heavy **** Up, Accounts Recievables and Complaint Resolution.
He'd be huge
What kind of proteins is he eating?
at thread derailmentI'm not gay, I promise
Reply
0
0
10-08-2013, 09:58 PM
#48
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,659
Total Cats: 134
I do not see traditional boost control algorithms succeeding with the VGT turbo because I do not see a constant relationship between duty cycle on the actuator and manifold pressure. It would take special code, or a special purpose built controller. The controller also needs to cycle the VGT from min to max DC at idle to ensure that the vanes to not stick.
Ford uses a VGT in their diesel truck 2003-preset. There are millions on the road, if you include all of the International motors (International supplied Diesels to Ford until 2011). I believe Dodge uses a VGT presently as well (theirs is actuated by a stepper motor). I have no complaints with the Garret VGT turbo in my truck. It spools like crazy and pulls hard all the way up, makes that 7200lb truck scoot. Hopefully I can maintain the same sentiment after a few more years with it.
Ford uses a VGT in their diesel truck 2003-preset. There are millions on the road, if you include all of the International motors (International supplied Diesels to Ford until 2011). I believe Dodge uses a VGT presently as well (theirs is actuated by a stepper motor). I have no complaints with the Garret VGT turbo in my truck. It spools like crazy and pulls hard all the way up, makes that 7200lb truck scoot. Hopefully I can maintain the same sentiment after a few more years with it.
Reply
0
0
10-09-2013, 12:10 AM
#49
Ben, the MS isnt able to define the a guideline set for wgdc for a table of rpm vs desired boost? Its my favorite part of setting up subaru boost control, you basically build your boost control map the same way you build a VE map and the closed loop boost control corrects any small errors.
Reply
0
0
10-13-2013, 10:51 AM
#51
Aaaa yess looks like the Cummins ISX turbo on my dad's semi,
World well on the 14l not sure how it will spool on a small engine.
I had a very good experience with BW diesel turbo with a bit of modifications.
Good luck.
World well on the 14l not sure how it will spool on a small engine.
I had a very good experience with BW diesel turbo with a bit of modifications.
Good luck.
So, one of the guys at the shop just called me and said the turbo arrived. "It's kinda big" he says, accompanied by shrieks of laughter from the other idiots in the background...
"How big?" I innocently inquire...
"Really big. 80 pounds big."
Now, SuperTrav is occasionally given to exaggeration, and he's only been around little ***** turbos like my MSM turbo, so I figure he's just making a big deal about nothing. Besides, an *80* pound turbo? Fuggetaboutit, the dudes gotta be mistaken. But there's something about the howling idiots in the background that makes me curious, so I tell him to text me a picture of it.
Whoa. Now THAT'S a turbo.
"How big?" I innocently inquire...
"Really big. 80 pounds big."
Now, SuperTrav is occasionally given to exaggeration, and he's only been around little ***** turbos like my MSM turbo, so I figure he's just making a big deal about nothing. Besides, an *80* pound turbo? Fuggetaboutit, the dudes gotta be mistaken. But there's something about the howling idiots in the background that makes me curious, so I tell him to text me a picture of it.
Whoa. Now THAT'S a turbo.
Reply
0
0
03-22-2016, 07:58 PM
#52
Newb
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 3
Total Cats: -7
Just wanted to chime in. If reliability isnt a factor then just do what I have done. Get a vnt turbo from a vw golf diesel or a vendor take the vacuum actuator off and replace it with a wastegate actuator...done!
Adjust vnt as desired and put in appropriate spring to hit desired boost pressure. I use a forge motorsport controller and have a 14 psi spring in it. It hits 14 psi and stops. You will want to have a backpressure gauge and egt gauge installed but you could hit 14 psi at like 1500 rpm lol. Just make sure you size vgt accordingly and I would also find a way to sneak in an external wastegate just in case as a safety measure.
Its kinda cool no matter how hard you floor it It hits the boost set and stops. Don't really have any creep that I can tell.
Adjust vnt as desired and put in appropriate spring to hit desired boost pressure. I use a forge motorsport controller and have a 14 psi spring in it. It hits 14 psi and stops. You will want to have a backpressure gauge and egt gauge installed but you could hit 14 psi at like 1500 rpm lol. Just make sure you size vgt accordingly and I would also find a way to sneak in an external wastegate just in case as a safety measure.
Its kinda cool no matter how hard you floor it It hits the boost set and stops. Don't really have any creep that I can tell.
Reply
-6
-6
03-22-2016, 11:02 PM
#55
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago. (The less-murder part.)
Posts: 33,027
Total Cats: 6,593
No idea.
Just pointing out that you're offering advice two and a half years after the last activity in the thread. In other words, the thread is dead, the original poster has't even logged on since April of last year, and nobody cares about it anymore.
OTOH, if you're eager to get to that 10-post limit so you can PM and use the classifieds(and, I mean, who wasn't back when they first signed on), then party on!
Just pointing out that you're offering advice two and a half years after the last activity in the thread. In other words, the thread is dead, the original poster has't even logged on since April of last year, and nobody cares about it anymore.
OTOH, if you're eager to get to that 10-post limit so you can PM and use the classifieds(and, I mean, who wasn't back when they first signed on), then party on!
Reply
0
0
03-22-2016, 11:07 PM
#56
Newb
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 3
Total Cats: -7
No I wasn't paying any attention to post minimums or classifieds or to how or the thread was. Just thought maybe people gave up because no one tried it the way I did. Just a simple mechanical setup as it moves the vanes to maintain a set psi. So I reviving the thread from the dead then lol
Reply
-1
-1
03-25-2016, 09:20 AM
#60
Former Vendor
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 271
Total Cats: 11
Leafy is quite correct. The VATN's are just variable A/R exhaust housings plus the ability to control top boost, which it also does with the A/R.
If stuck at a real small A/R, the turbo can be so jumpy as to be near impossible to drive. As attractive as gobs of low end boost might seem, 10 psi at 1000 rpms is a real bad idea.
Without a proper controller, which is not that difficult, you might find pretty satisfactory response by jamming the vanes at varying positions until you like what happens. Then add a wastegate as a control. This would be like a standard turbo with and adjustable A/R.
A proper controller will hold the vanes open under manifold vac conditions, closing them up as vac approaches zero, thus "pre-spinning" things up, then progressively opening them to keep constant boost.
Getting boost up too quickly can run into surge problems. Be wary.
In my opinion, vatn's don't take full advantage of their low rpm capabilites by using suitably larger compressor wheels. Here again, it is a balance with surge problems.
Aerodyne conquered the surge problems with genius compressor design. Others surely can also.
I have used a considerable number of Aerodyne turbos and never burned a vane. Usually added a wastegate out of plain fear.
corky
If stuck at a real small A/R, the turbo can be so jumpy as to be near impossible to drive. As attractive as gobs of low end boost might seem, 10 psi at 1000 rpms is a real bad idea.
Without a proper controller, which is not that difficult, you might find pretty satisfactory response by jamming the vanes at varying positions until you like what happens. Then add a wastegate as a control. This would be like a standard turbo with and adjustable A/R.
A proper controller will hold the vanes open under manifold vac conditions, closing them up as vac approaches zero, thus "pre-spinning" things up, then progressively opening them to keep constant boost.
Getting boost up too quickly can run into surge problems. Be wary.
In my opinion, vatn's don't take full advantage of their low rpm capabilites by using suitably larger compressor wheels. Here again, it is a balance with surge problems.
Aerodyne conquered the surge problems with genius compressor design. Others surely can also.
I have used a considerable number of Aerodyne turbos and never burned a vane. Usually added a wastegate out of plain fear.
corky
Reply
0
0
