2.4 Ecotec swap. kit. 201whp
08-08-2015, 06:12 PM
#61
A stock turbo, unopened, LNF will do 400/400 on corn if you know what you're doing (it involves fancy things in the tune like adjusting the injection angle and stuff). Of course those motors are hard to find in the junk yard and when you do find them you're going to pay for it.
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08-09-2015, 05:27 AM
#62
I'm finding longblocks for $2600, so I'm sure you're not wrong.
They're still shoving the thing in new cars though, Buicks and whatever else, I bet they won't be expensive for long.
Then the gen 3 are backwards, or would that be right, at least in a miata. No more crazy exhaust routing, and the turbo 2.0 comes in a malibu now so they have to get reasonable at some point, right?
I wonder if those new ecotecs share the right swap parts?
They're still shoving the thing in new cars though, Buicks and whatever else, I bet they won't be expensive for long.
Then the gen 3 are backwards, or would that be right, at least in a miata. No more crazy exhaust routing, and the turbo 2.0 comes in a malibu now so they have to get reasonable at some point, right?
I wonder if those new ecotecs share the right swap parts?
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08-09-2015, 06:02 AM
#64
That's a random ebay listing with turbo and manifold, no intake or injectors/fuel rails. Supposedly brand new too. Car-part has several with around ~100k for ~2500, no idea what all is included.
I've read a little about the new 2.0 turbo, 2013+ malibus, supposedly has 250ftlbs at 2000 rpm with a variable geometry turbo. That'd be a little bit fantastic, and it does have the turbo on the proper side.
Again I have no idea what all is included, but I see those all over car part for ~2k.
Why no use that one? Wonder if it uses the same swap bits?
I've read a little about the new 2.0 turbo, 2013+ malibus, supposedly has 250ftlbs at 2000 rpm with a variable geometry turbo. That'd be a little bit fantastic, and it does have the turbo on the proper side.
Again I have no idea what all is included, but I see those all over car part for ~2k.
Why no use that one? Wonder if it uses the same swap bits?
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08-11-2015, 06:56 PM
#66
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 138
Total Cats: 5
You can pick up a new LDK (Gen 3, DI, turbocharged) long block with the OEM K04 turbo for $2500 + about $250 shipping.
If the DI HPFP on the rear of the head causes too much interference with the firewall, swapping the LDK head for a LNF head (Gen 2, DI, turbocharged) is an extra $500. The LNF was used in RWD applications like the Pontiac Soltice, so it would be less work to install in a Miata.
GM used to sell an ECU tune for the LNF which produced 290hp/340lbft. The aftermarket can of match or beat that with the OEM turbo. Not to mention that EFR turbo kits are available, with supporting mods and tuning for the DI system. At some point, the Mazda 6spd is going to give up with these power levels, but you can approach the project in stages... Swap in a T5 when you start eating up the Mazda transmissions or install an upgraded Mazda 5spd box with Qualfie gearset, if you want to keep a Mazda driveline after the engine.
Since these same engines are widely available from auto recyclers, have aftermarket tuning support from HP tuners, and even the possibility of a 49 state emissions legal swap, what's not to like?
This kit is definitely on my consideration list for my next Miata build. Too bad I already have a 1.8L VVT engine and DIY turbo kit for my current NA Miata.
If the DI HPFP on the rear of the head causes too much interference with the firewall, swapping the LDK head for a LNF head (Gen 2, DI, turbocharged) is an extra $500. The LNF was used in RWD applications like the Pontiac Soltice, so it would be less work to install in a Miata.
GM used to sell an ECU tune for the LNF which produced 290hp/340lbft. The aftermarket can of match or beat that with the OEM turbo. Not to mention that EFR turbo kits are available, with supporting mods and tuning for the DI system. At some point, the Mazda 6spd is going to give up with these power levels, but you can approach the project in stages... Swap in a T5 when you start eating up the Mazda transmissions or install an upgraded Mazda 5spd box with Qualfie gearset, if you want to keep a Mazda driveline after the engine.
Since these same engines are widely available from auto recyclers, have aftermarket tuning support from HP tuners, and even the possibility of a 49 state emissions legal swap, what's not to like?
This kit is definitely on my consideration list for my next Miata build. Too bad I already have a 1.8L VVT engine and DIY turbo kit for my current NA Miata.
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08-11-2015, 07:29 PM
#67
Is the transmission in the kappa platform anything to write home about, make the swap even cheaper? I guess it's the same 5 speed from the colorado/canyon, so probably not.
I'd seriously consider swapping an ecotec over a LSx of some sort, especially if I can save as many OEM GM bits as possible.
I'd seriously consider swapping an ecotec over a LSx of some sort, especially if I can save as many OEM GM bits as possible.
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08-11-2015, 10:32 PM
#68
Is the transmission in the kappa platform anything to write home about, make the swap even cheaper? I guess it's the same 5 speed from the colorado/canyon, so probably not.
I'd seriously consider swapping an ecotec over a LSx of some sort, especially if I can save as many OEM GM bits as possible.
I'd seriously consider swapping an ecotec over a LSx of some sort, especially if I can save as many OEM GM bits as possible.
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08-12-2015, 12:04 AM
#69
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 1,137
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Is the transmission in the kappa platform anything to write home about, make the swap even cheaper? I guess it's the same 5 speed from the colorado/canyon, so probably not.
I'd seriously consider swapping an ecotec over a LSx of some sort, especially if I can save as many OEM GM bits as possible.
I'd seriously consider swapping an ecotec over a LSx of some sort, especially if I can save as many OEM GM bits as possible.
I own a LNF cobalt as a daily and have been in the cobalt game since I was 16 (damn thats 7 years ago already). I spoke with a few friends of mine at Performance Autowerks in chicago about the idea of an LNF miata about a year ago already.. essentially it would be a mini-kappa.. If i were to do it though, I would use a Ford 8.8 rear end as you see typical with many swaps, an LDK block with LNF head on a Borg Warner 6758 and E47 (good for low 400whp), then mate that to a T56 trans via an adapter plate which i believe you can purchase. The biggest mess that then remains is the ECU management. The LNF/LDK ecu does not like being run without the BCM module. you have to go through Trifecta performance to get a stock ECU that is reflashed to run standalone, then you need a VIN created/assigned on that ECU so that you can have the option of tuning it via HPTuners if you're like me and want to tune it yourself.
Overall, by time all was said and done with cost, I was comtemplating if going the "turbo ecotec" route was better off than the usual LSx build if the goal was 400whp...
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08-13-2015, 09:48 AM
#70
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 21
Total Cats: 2
Time to chime in here.
A short intro: I'm Matt from MT Motorsport, the people responsible for this swap kit. We did display it at MATG this year. Had the opportunity to meet some great guys like Marcus, GeneSplicer, the guys from SalvageWon, Fab9 Tuning, and KMiata. It was an awesome time, and a big thanks to those responsible for putting it on.
With regards to some of the Ecotec swap questions I've seen pop up here, I'll try to answer them.
The LNF turbo/manifold fits in the engine bay without any cutting, as does the earlier Saab 9-3 turbo/manifold.
The factory forced induction engines employ an oil to water heat exchanger on the rear of the oil filter housing. This will require cutting the frame rail shelf on the driver's side. (As you would with a LSx swap).
The factory forced induction engines use an 8-bolt crank, for which we would have to make a billet flywheel. Any of the other variants have 6 bolt cranks, for which we supply an adapter to allow the use of any standard Miata flywheel.
We will be trying to install an DI 2.4L engine in an NB soon. I suspect some clearance issues, we'll cross that bridge when we get there. The FWD and RWD DI pumps are in the same location. Actually, there is no real RWD version of the engine, they are all essentially the same. Factory oil pans vary from platform to platform. We solve that problem by supplying an oil pan to fit your unmodified NA or NB subframe.
The aforementioned oil pan does clear the power steering rack. We are currently working on brackets to allow the Miata P/S pump to be mounted to the Ecotec. Custom hoses will be required, and we will supply those.
We have brackets to allow an A/C compressor to be installed so you can retain your existing Miata A/C should you choose to. We use a common BMW A/C compressor, purely for packaging reasons. One of the cars on display at The Gap was sporting functioning A/C.
The cooling system need not be upgraded. Well, at least not for the naturally aspirated engines. Even with severe track abuse we cannot get our silver NB test mule to break 190F with a stock radiator, single fan, and no oil cooler. Oil temps stabilize at 245F during these same conditions.
Yes, the engines are extremely tough. Realistically, any variant with some boost will shatter any Miata transmission with heavy track usage. With the Dual VVT, and electronic boost control though you could tune in a perfectly flat torque curve just under the limit of a Miata transmission and make one seriously fast car.
The dyno chart posted in this thread was using a GM ECU (E37 for those who care). It uses a DBW throttle body (stock actually). Like the LSx swaps, we simply used a C6 Corvette gas pedal. Once the tune is dialed in there is no way anyone could tell it was drive by wire. The key there is the Corvette pedal. The Cobalt, or others, are simply too lazy when it comes to initial throttle response. That particular car is now sporting an MS3-Pro and the waves in the torque curve are gone. It has been fitted with a 70mm mechanical throttle body that uses the OE NB throttle cable. The factory ECU is not as good as MS3 when it comes to aggressive control of the cam phasers. Plus, with the ability to control cam angles with throttle position you end up with awesome drivability, as the torque output is directly proportional to throttle angle, regardless of manifold pressure.
Anything else?
A short intro: I'm Matt from MT Motorsport, the people responsible for this swap kit. We did display it at MATG this year. Had the opportunity to meet some great guys like Marcus, GeneSplicer, the guys from SalvageWon, Fab9 Tuning, and KMiata. It was an awesome time, and a big thanks to those responsible for putting it on.
With regards to some of the Ecotec swap questions I've seen pop up here, I'll try to answer them.
The LNF turbo/manifold fits in the engine bay without any cutting, as does the earlier Saab 9-3 turbo/manifold.
The factory forced induction engines employ an oil to water heat exchanger on the rear of the oil filter housing. This will require cutting the frame rail shelf on the driver's side. (As you would with a LSx swap).
The factory forced induction engines use an 8-bolt crank, for which we would have to make a billet flywheel. Any of the other variants have 6 bolt cranks, for which we supply an adapter to allow the use of any standard Miata flywheel.
We will be trying to install an DI 2.4L engine in an NB soon. I suspect some clearance issues, we'll cross that bridge when we get there. The FWD and RWD DI pumps are in the same location. Actually, there is no real RWD version of the engine, they are all essentially the same. Factory oil pans vary from platform to platform. We solve that problem by supplying an oil pan to fit your unmodified NA or NB subframe.
The aforementioned oil pan does clear the power steering rack. We are currently working on brackets to allow the Miata P/S pump to be mounted to the Ecotec. Custom hoses will be required, and we will supply those.
We have brackets to allow an A/C compressor to be installed so you can retain your existing Miata A/C should you choose to. We use a common BMW A/C compressor, purely for packaging reasons. One of the cars on display at The Gap was sporting functioning A/C.
The cooling system need not be upgraded. Well, at least not for the naturally aspirated engines. Even with severe track abuse we cannot get our silver NB test mule to break 190F with a stock radiator, single fan, and no oil cooler. Oil temps stabilize at 245F during these same conditions.
Yes, the engines are extremely tough. Realistically, any variant with some boost will shatter any Miata transmission with heavy track usage. With the Dual VVT, and electronic boost control though you could tune in a perfectly flat torque curve just under the limit of a Miata transmission and make one seriously fast car.
The dyno chart posted in this thread was using a GM ECU (E37 for those who care). It uses a DBW throttle body (stock actually). Like the LSx swaps, we simply used a C6 Corvette gas pedal. Once the tune is dialed in there is no way anyone could tell it was drive by wire. The key there is the Corvette pedal. The Cobalt, or others, are simply too lazy when it comes to initial throttle response. That particular car is now sporting an MS3-Pro and the waves in the torque curve are gone. It has been fitted with a 70mm mechanical throttle body that uses the OE NB throttle cable. The factory ECU is not as good as MS3 when it comes to aggressive control of the cam phasers. Plus, with the ability to control cam angles with throttle position you end up with awesome drivability, as the torque output is directly proportional to throttle angle, regardless of manifold pressure.
Anything else?
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08-17-2015, 11:36 PM
#71
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 17
Total Cats: 0
Awesome thanks for the additional info Matt.
So pre DI 2.4 LE5 motors are the best starting point in your mind then? But obviously they are motors that easily handle boost. Have you re-dyno'd the silver NB since going to the MS3 and the 70mm throttle body?
So pre DI 2.4 LE5 motors are the best starting point in your mind then? But obviously they are motors that easily handle boost. Have you re-dyno'd the silver NB since going to the MS3 and the 70mm throttle body?
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08-18-2015, 11:20 PM
#73
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 17
Total Cats: 0
I've done some local parts yard research and they seem to be able to be had fairly cheap. My goals would be to keep the stock miata trans and whatnot so getting a little over 200whp would be great. There is a lot of ways to get to those numbers I know but NA would be nice. Before I go nuts cost wise I would rather be looking to take massive weight out of the car via a Catfish or Exocet etc build rather than do say an LFX or LS swap
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08-20-2015, 03:22 PM
#74
Wouldn't this be a good alternative for some of the NASA TT guys? Marcus was talking a bit about the fact that, under whatever rules, if you can mount it in the stock location and it reaches whatever HP numbers you need in class, they don't care what motor is in the car. Maybe TTD or TTE?
I could have misunderstood some of what was being talked about, it was hot, lots of shiny things to catch my attention.
I could have misunderstood some of what was being talked about, it was hot, lots of shiny things to catch my attention.
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09-14-2015, 01:27 PM
#75
Looks like MTMotorsport's Ecotec Chump car has everything sorted. Calabogie day 1 - 2nd overall and day 2 - 5th overall.
https://www.facebook.com/MTMotorsport.ca?fref=nf
https://www.facebook.com/MTMotorsport.ca?fref=nf
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01-27-2016, 08:25 PM
#76
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 323
Total Cats: 23
5 month bump.
Was reading about the new Camaro tonight, and its available with a turbo 4. That was interesting though not unexpected, given the Mustang Ecoboost. The interesting part is it appears to be part of the ecotec family, which I assume means the MT Motorsport kit would at least have a hope of being compatible with.
The motor is a Turbo 2.0 with 275hp and 295ftlb, all aluminium. GM will sell you a crate engine LTG to the tune of $9,000.
Was reading about the new Camaro tonight, and its available with a turbo 4. That was interesting though not unexpected, given the Mustang Ecoboost. The interesting part is it appears to be part of the ecotec family, which I assume means the MT Motorsport kit would at least have a hope of being compatible with.
The motor is a Turbo 2.0 with 275hp and 295ftlb, all aluminium. GM will sell you a crate engine LTG to the tune of $9,000.
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01-28-2016, 10:59 AM
#77
5 month bump.
Was reading about the new Camaro tonight, and its available with a turbo 4. That was interesting though not unexpected, given the Mustang Ecoboost. The interesting part is it appears to be part of the ecotec family, which I assume means the MT Motorsport kit would at least have a hope of being compatible with.
The motor is a Turbo 2.0 with 275hp and 295ftlb, all aluminium. GM will sell you a crate engine LTG to the tune of $9,000.
Was reading about the new Camaro tonight, and its available with a turbo 4. That was interesting though not unexpected, given the Mustang Ecoboost. The interesting part is it appears to be part of the ecotec family, which I assume means the MT Motorsport kit would at least have a hope of being compatible with.
The motor is a Turbo 2.0 with 275hp and 295ftlb, all aluminium. GM will sell you a crate engine LTG to the tune of $9,000.
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08-25-2016, 12:00 PM
#80
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: NYC
Posts: 96
Total Cats: 13
Hello all!
I pulled the trigger on doing the ecotec swap back in may after destroying the rings in my old 1.8 BP swap some short time before.
First off id like to say that although they have been very accommodating with information and quick to respond via Facebook messenger... I ordered my kit on may 18th and did not receive the balance of it until July 18th. Took them 8 weeks to get me my kit which i was pretty dissatisfied with. They did apologize repeatedly and ended up throwing in a T-shirt and an exhaust bracket to fab up a temporary downpipe so i can get the car to the exhaust shop without catching fire from open header issues.
I avoided junkyard sourcing everything and went a different route for sourcing my motor. It may have costed me more in the long run but i did not want to deal with having to source parts from all over and deal with a motor I know nothing about its current state of being having bought something from ebay or some junkyard.
A company out of Michigan called Alpha Fab is where I got my first Gen Ecotec LE5 motor from. First gen being that it has factory forged internals for future E85 supercharged or turbo plans.
Here is a link to the exact "kit" i bought:
http://www.alphafabindustries.com/pr...ombo-stage-iii
Granted its a bit of an investment but you get:
After finding out about a faulty flywheel adapter, I was able to really get started on the project at the very end of July. I did not have any but one weekend free to work on the car so it took me two weeks of week nights a few hours a night and one long weekend to get the car running and ready for the exhaust shop.
The build quality of all the ecotec miata parts were top notch, I have zero compaints in this department.
Clearances are very tight with the build, the main pulley off the crank clears the oil pan by a thumbnails thickness and the bolt holding it to the crank clears the swaybar by about the same. The starter motor butts right up against the motor mounts, requiring removal of the driver side motor mount if any issues arise with the starter. The alpha fab motor did not come with an OEM coolant block on the back of the motor so i was not able to use the heater core lines. May or may not add it down the road, see how miserable i am without heat come the fall.
Wiring the motor with the supplied Alpha fab fuseblock and ecu was a cake. The fuseblock had tag ends for me to wire up my tach, oil pressure, coolant temp, both OEM fans, and the fuel pump with ease. The supplied monte carlo fly by wire gas pedal was relatively simple to mount under the dash and only required a minor bit of firewall hacking to get the plug to pass through where the throttle cable used to.
Car originally ran for only 5 to 10 seconds before shutting down, to which after scanning the computer found that alpha fab had not tuned out the theft mode. They sent me a new ECU, with their latest and greatest tune on it that they are using in their race buggies. Got the new computer, plugged it in, and the car runs beautifully. Took it around the block a few times to make sure all was well and the car never got warmer than 140 degrees.
See the attached https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7...nJ3aUdoWHR4Q1E to view my photo/video album of the project.
Car is currently at the exhaust shop with a frustrated exhaust guy about how tight it is to route the piping around the clutch slave and subframe even with relocated fuel lines. Will update my google drive with more photos and video once the car is back from exhaust.
I pulled the trigger on doing the ecotec swap back in may after destroying the rings in my old 1.8 BP swap some short time before.
First off id like to say that although they have been very accommodating with information and quick to respond via Facebook messenger... I ordered my kit on may 18th and did not receive the balance of it until July 18th. Took them 8 weeks to get me my kit which i was pretty dissatisfied with. They did apologize repeatedly and ended up throwing in a T-shirt and an exhaust bracket to fab up a temporary downpipe so i can get the car to the exhaust shop without catching fire from open header issues.
I avoided junkyard sourcing everything and went a different route for sourcing my motor. It may have costed me more in the long run but i did not want to deal with having to source parts from all over and deal with a motor I know nothing about its current state of being having bought something from ebay or some junkyard.
A company out of Michigan called Alpha Fab is where I got my first Gen Ecotec LE5 motor from. First gen being that it has factory forged internals for future E85 supercharged or turbo plans.
Here is a link to the exact "kit" i bought:
http://www.alphafabindustries.com/pr...ombo-stage-iii
Granted its a bit of an investment but you get:
- a motor that has been gone through down to the rotating assembly and rebuilt
- a custom built, standalone wiring harness and GM ECU
- tech support
- alternator and belt installed
- auto tranny flex plate
- fuel pressure regulator
- fly by wire pedal
- all needed sensors
- peace of mind
After finding out about a faulty flywheel adapter, I was able to really get started on the project at the very end of July. I did not have any but one weekend free to work on the car so it took me two weeks of week nights a few hours a night and one long weekend to get the car running and ready for the exhaust shop.
The build quality of all the ecotec miata parts were top notch, I have zero compaints in this department.
Clearances are very tight with the build, the main pulley off the crank clears the oil pan by a thumbnails thickness and the bolt holding it to the crank clears the swaybar by about the same. The starter motor butts right up against the motor mounts, requiring removal of the driver side motor mount if any issues arise with the starter. The alpha fab motor did not come with an OEM coolant block on the back of the motor so i was not able to use the heater core lines. May or may not add it down the road, see how miserable i am without heat come the fall.
Wiring the motor with the supplied Alpha fab fuseblock and ecu was a cake. The fuseblock had tag ends for me to wire up my tach, oil pressure, coolant temp, both OEM fans, and the fuel pump with ease. The supplied monte carlo fly by wire gas pedal was relatively simple to mount under the dash and only required a minor bit of firewall hacking to get the plug to pass through where the throttle cable used to.
Car originally ran for only 5 to 10 seconds before shutting down, to which after scanning the computer found that alpha fab had not tuned out the theft mode. They sent me a new ECU, with their latest and greatest tune on it that they are using in their race buggies. Got the new computer, plugged it in, and the car runs beautifully. Took it around the block a few times to make sure all was well and the car never got warmer than 140 degrees.
See the attached https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7...nJ3aUdoWHR4Q1E to view my photo/video album of the project.
Car is currently at the exhaust shop with a frustrated exhaust guy about how tight it is to route the piping around the clutch slave and subframe even with relocated fuel lines. Will update my google drive with more photos and video once the car is back from exhaust.
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