Question about nozzle placement - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum

jayc72 · 11-13-2009, 03:44 PM

Besides additional nozzles, tubing, fittings and a manifold/splitter is there anything else you would need to add to a basic DO kit to do port WI?

Edit: DO has a kit to upgrade to 4/6/8 direct port kits. 4 port is about $62.

JayL · 11-13-2009, 03:53 PM

What's the consensus on the newer high pressure pumps that should improve atomization?

Full_Tilt_Boogie · 11-13-2009, 04:03 PM

Yah I put thse holes there for direct port nitrous back in the day, I wanted to get them as far upstream as possible to prevent reversion and help atomization. Should be ideal for water as well

Full_Tilt_Boogie · 11-13-2009, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayc72

Besides additional nozzles, tubing, fittings and a manifold/splitter is there anything else you would need to add to a basic DO kit to do port WI?

Edit: DO has a kit to upgrade to 4/6/8 direct port kits. 4 port is about $62.

check valve or solenoid, its connecting into vacuum so you need it stop the water from being drawn out

TrickerZ · 11-13-2009, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZX-Tex

Like I said...

Yeah, totally missed that post. I must have written mine at the same time and didn't realize you posted.

I guess I need to order some more nozzles and such. Are you using a home built system or DO or ? on/off or progressive? what size nozzles?

I'm really interested in seeing how your setup works out.

ZX-Tex · 11-13-2009, 05:23 PM

No worries

It is a Devil's Own universal with additional fittings to split it into four ports. I am using DO 2 GPH external nozzles. It will be progressive, controlled by my Adaptronic, but not by pulsing the pump. I found a used Aquamist high-speed nozzle and will be using that, controlled via PWM from an aux output. I am leaning towards mapping the WI to the FI duty cycle; the Adaptronic can do this. It can map it to whatever you want really, so I could map it to RPM, MAP, throttle position, moon phase...

ftjandra · 11-13-2009, 05:33 PM

A high-speed check valve or solenoid will obviously prevent siphoning from the tank during vacuum, but I was wondering if you needed individual check valves to prevent siphoning fluid between the nozzles?

I don't know what's worse - the check-valves not opening at the same time or the small delay caused by having to fill up the empty lines.

--Ferdi

**Joe Perez** · 11-13-2009, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayL

What's the consensus on the newer high pressure pumps that should improve atomization?

Got a link? I can't say that I know off-hand exactly which pumps you mean, unless you're talking about the ShurFlo-style units that DO has listed with higher-pressure limit switches.

ZX-Tex · 11-13-2009, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ftjandra

A high-speed check valve or solenoid will obviously prevent siphoning from the tank during vacuum, but I was wondering if you needed individual check valves to prevent siphoning fluid between the nozzles?

I don't know what's worse - the check-valves not opening at the same time or the small delay caused by having to fill up the empty lines.

--Ferdi

Good question. There could be a local pressure differential, such as when the valves open and close, that would cause siphoning. Two things though make me think it is not a big deal:
1. The pressure differential will probably be short lived, and also not that large, certainly nothing like the pressure differential caused by the pump. So the overall siphoning flow rates would be low. Plus at some point the water in the tubes would probably just oscillate back and forth and not actually leave the nozzle.
2. Even if the entire system downstream of the main check valve were evacuated, I do not think it would take very long at all to push out the air and recharge it with water once the pump turned on (or PWM valve opened, whatever). Air will push through the atomizing nozzles very quickly since it has a much lower viscosity. I am guessing a second or less. BUT even if it were significant, it would be easy to compensate for. For example, if you are triggering based on MAP, just set the turn-on point a little lower. That way the air is all gone well before you actually need the WI to prevent detonation.

In other words, I am not going to worry about it too much, and will only use one check valve. Hell just test it. Drain the system, turn on the pump, and see how long it takes before water sprays.

ftjandra · 11-13-2009, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZX-Tex

In other words, I am not going to worry about it too much, and will only use one check valve.

You mentioned that you were using an Aquamist high-speed valve - why the need for a check valve then?

--Ferdi

JayL · 11-13-2009, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Perez

Got a link? I can't say that I know off-hand exactly which pumps you mean, unless you're talking about the ShurFlo-style units that DO has listed with higher-pressure limit switches.

Something like this.

ZX-Tex · 11-13-2009, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ftjandra

You mentioned that you were using an Aquamist high-speed valve - why the need for a check valve then?

--Ferdi

You are right. No need for a check valve. I just used the term check valve since that is what most use. Not a lot of people are using an HSV.

Speaking of which I guess that means I will have an unused check valve if anyone needs one. Not that they are expensive.

**Joe Perez** · 11-14-2009, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayL

Something like this.

Ok, same as the DO 8031.

tyson87 · 11-14-2009, 12:40 AM

my WI kit is going in tomorrow morning along with a dyno pull.
i am using the solenoid that is offered by DO with my MS controlling it.

ZX-Tex · 11-14-2009, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyson87

i am using the solenoid that is offered by DO with my MS controlling it.

To do PWM? Or just to open/close the solenoid at the trigger point?

tyson87 · 11-14-2009, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zx-tex

to do pwm? Or just to open/close the solenoid at the trigger point?

pwm...

jayc72 · 11-14-2009, 12:05 PM

Doesn't the pump prime the lines when it is powered up?

ZX-Tex · 11-14-2009, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyson87

pwm...

Are you sure that valve can handle PWM? I thought it was just intended as an on/off solenoid to act as a an alternative to a check valve (without the pressure drop).

**Joe Perez** · 11-14-2009, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZX-Tex

Are you sure that valve can handle PWM? I thought it was just intended as an on/off solenoid to act as a an alternative to a check valve (without the pressure drop).

The valve that DO sells appears to be the same Ingersoll unit that FM uses for their EBC. In that application, it seems to work somewhat linearly as a PWM proportional flow control valve. It will be interesting to see if it functions equally well with water.

Tyson, what frequency are you planning to drive it at?

ZX-Tex · 11-14-2009, 04:05 PM

Ahhh OK well maybe it will work then. I hope it does.

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