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Old 02-02-2015, 10:45 PM   #21
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Subframe in. This is being done early so we can drop the mock up engine in for header and exhaust building at Hytech. 11.75 BBK with our directional rotors BTW. Undecided on radiator. Either have Andrew build us a 1.5" double pass or modify a Koyo Hyper-V

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Old 02-02-2015, 11:03 PM   #22
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You 'taint going to need that oil cooler spacer. Unless it's roughly in the same location on a K and roughly the same size.
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Old 02-02-2015, 11:12 PM   #23
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One thought on the radiator - we initially modified ours to move the upper inlet to the driver side. However, now that we are playing with some different intake setups, its turning out to be in the way a bit.

So we are going back to a stock style radiator so we can use some hard lines and couplers to duck the hose under the throttle body. It will look a bit like Andy's car. Maybe not the final setup, I'm trying to test as many things since this is such a new setup and I want to stay a few steps ahead.

I'm also very interested to see what you come up with using the RRC manifold. Obviously we thought about cutting and flipping the plenum to point the TB the right direction. However, we're also working on some other potential off-the-shelf solutions for customers.
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Old 02-03-2015, 01:12 AM   #24
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One thought on the radiator - we initially modified ours to move the upper inlet to the driver side. However, now that we are playing with some different intake setups, its turning out to be in the way a bit.

So we are going back to a stock style radiator so we can use some hard lines and couplers to duck the hose under the throttle body. It will look a bit like Andy's car. Maybe not the final setup, I'm trying to test as many things since this is such a new setup and I want to stay a few steps ahead.

I'm also very interested to see what you come up with using the RRC manifold. Obviously we thought about cutting and flipping the plenum to point the TB the right direction. However, we're also working on some other potential off-the-shelf solutions for customers.
Why not do the whole half width Honda radiator option? So the radiator sits on the RHS with an air intake damn on the left which could duct right up into the TB. Given it's a Honda motor it would make good sense I think.

When I was looking at the k-swap I liked the RWD Magnus IM for the K-series. On a Miata it would pop out right at the front of the engine just like BP only flipped. It's probably worth the extra $ for a solution that just works. (and looks / performs good)
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Old 02-03-2015, 01:37 AM   #25
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Sub'd. This is definitely going to be good.
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Old 02-03-2015, 12:37 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madjak View Post
Why not do the whole half width Honda radiator option? So the radiator sits on the RHS with an air intake damn on the left which could duct right up into the TB. Given it's a Honda motor it would make good sense I think.

When I was looking at the k-swap I liked the RWD Magnus IM for the K-series. On a Miata it would pop out right at the front of the engine just like BP only flipped. It's probably worth the extra $ for a solution that just works. (and looks / performs good)
To both of the suggestions in your post: Because it's not a drag racer. I expect it to stay cool making 290bhp on 110*days. Runners on Magnus are way too short to make power at the correct rpm range for the cams I'm using. Beside, the RRC will work. I'm not after absolute max peak power or I would have built a K24 without Vtec and ran it on E85.
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Old 02-03-2015, 10:54 PM   #27
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To both of the suggestions in your post: Because it's not a drag racer. I expect it to stay cool making 290bhp on 110*days. Runners on Magnus are way too short to make power at the correct rpm range for the cams I'm using. Beside, the RRC will work. I'm not after absolute max peak power or I would have built a K24 without Vtec and ran it on E85.
Yeah my plan was for a K20 rather than K24... I think there is a natural fit with a race prepped miata and a high reving 2L N/A Honda screamer. I'm very interested in how it all comes together!
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Old 02-05-2015, 02:22 AM   #28
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Mock up engine installed for exhaust and intake manifold fab. Snug fit. It's as far down and back as one could get given the oil pump location and transmission constraints. Head isn't a K20A2 head but it's close enough for what we're doing.


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Old 02-05-2015, 02:56 AM   #29
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Emilio, could you please take a photo of the RHS of the engine where the engine mount / steering rack sits? Maybe through the front radiator space so there is a bit of persepective. I've been trying to figure out if the Kmiata custom pan and engine mount will fit with a RHD steering rack and where the collision points would be.

It's will all be very tight on that side for anyone with a RHD MX5 especially given the exhaust has to squish past there too.

Edit: Oh I see you have the radiator in the car... perhaps from underneath?
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Old 02-05-2015, 10:53 AM   #30
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KMiata "Early adopter" checking in here.

Looking forward to seeing what John can do with the 2-liter. Tell me more about "custom RRC", please.


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I like the higher revs the K20 is capable of. Besides 260whp on pump gas is plenty in an HPDE car with no aero on street tires. To me running a long stroke, under square rev limited engine (K24) even though it has that fabulous k series head would be too much like sticking a fancy BP in it. Running a K20 get to all the honda goodness.
I used to think this way, too. My first K-swap in the CRX was a JDM K20A.

After I blew that up learning about K-series oiling difficiencies, I went to a K24, mostly because they were stupid cheap compared to a low-miles, running JDM K20A. $1200-1400 for a low-miles K24A2 that had lived its life behind an automatic trans in a luxo sedan. Later, I did mild builds on them (similar to what you are doing) that netted 300hp, but with table-top flat torque curves.

The basic difference between the two motors, when similarly built, is 800rpm. Everything happens 800rpm sooner with the 2.4. But...even if you shift the torque curves over by that 800, there is still more mid-range with the 2.4. Even geared to compensate for that rpm-difference, the 2.4 will have more grunt coming off the turns.

I post this not to belittle your thoughts, Emilio, but to give others things to think about as they consider this same swap. We all butter our bread differently.
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Old 02-05-2015, 10:57 AM   #31
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Awesome!

I just placed an order for a Kmiata swap kit yesterday.I am using a low mileage k20a2 that I scored for $800. I plan on leaving it stock and bolting a Rotrex c38-71 supercharger on it from kraftwerks. Looking at around 300-350whp for around 10k.

Looking at your picture of where the steering rack and oil pan sit, I'm a little worried now that I might not have enough room for the blower and alternator to sit 😳
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Old 02-05-2015, 01:00 PM   #32
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This is somewhat off topic here, but do you guys not have issues with big front bars on stock sway bar mounts?
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Old 02-05-2015, 01:35 PM   #33
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Racing beat bracing blocks make stock nb swaybar mounts strong enough.

Edit. This is an na, of course, I assume similar. But I could be wrong.
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Old 02-05-2015, 02:02 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madjak View Post
Emilio, could you please take a photo of the RHS of the engine where the engine mount / steering rack sits?
I would suggest working with David directly to investigate RHD compatibility

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Originally Posted by AndyHollis View Post
KMiata "Early adopter" checking in here.
Looking forward to seeing what John can do with the 2-liter. Tell me more about "custom RRC", please.

I used to think this way, too. My first K-swap in the CRX was a JDM K20A.

After I blew that up learning about K-series oiling difficiencies, I went to a K24, mostly because they were stupid cheap compared to a low-miles, running JDM K20A. $1200-1400 for a low-miles K24A2 that had lived its life behind an automatic trans in a luxo sedan..
My guess is no one reading my build thread will be inspired to build a K20 as soon as they shop for one or see how much easy power folks are getting with K24’s.

I just can’t get my head around the stroke length, rod ratio and high piston speeds of the K24, regardless of the power it makes. It’s more an emotional than rational decision. Wanting to get away from the BP’s 1.56:1 rod ratio , the K20’s 1.62 fills the bill. The K24’s 1.54:1 ratio is the wrong direction. Also, the 20mm taller engine and greater weight didn’t appeal to me. As it is, the swap kit move the engine forward quite a bit relative to the BP. Some of the cost savings of a K24 are obviated by the need to upgrade the oil pump and source the K20’s 50į VTC gear. If it were a race car, it would get a K24, plain and simple. It isn’t a race car though, just a fun street toy, HPDE and ride-along mobile. I’m happy with the power it will make, rpm it will spin at with impunity and how it will sound.

Meanwhile, I’m looking at this gauge set from revlimiter, but with 8800rpm redline and marked to 10k. Speedo marked to 160mph



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This is somewhat off topic here, but do you guys not have issues with big front bars on stock sway bar mounts?
No. We always use the brace blocks. Never found any other issues with tabs on control arms or pivot mount brackets tearing.
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Old 02-05-2015, 02:08 PM   #35
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Beat to the reply...
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Old 02-05-2015, 02:18 PM   #36
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Can't wait to see the K swap. What did you guys decide to do with the motor you were already running in Deviate?

Emilio on the cost/power option in a 1.6 car is the rotrex still the cheapest reliable power adder option? How easy is it to get more out of than the CARB setup?
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Old 02-05-2015, 02:36 PM   #37
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Can't wait to see the K swap. What did you guys decide to do with the motor you were already running in Deviate?

Emilio on the cost/power option in a 1.6 car is the rotrex still the cheapest reliable power adder option? How easy is it to get more out of than the CARB setup?
That motor gets a new Wiseco 84.0mm, 10.5:1 bottom end and goes into the OGK. Rotrex questions in our Rotrex thread
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Old 02-05-2015, 03:21 PM   #38
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Thanks Emilio l will check out the other thread.
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Old 02-05-2015, 03:28 PM   #39
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Tell us more about "custom RRC", please.

Flipped plenum or custom plenum?

CNC'd runners?
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Old 02-05-2015, 03:59 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyHollis View Post
Tell us more about "custom RRC", please.

Flipped plenum or custom plenum?

CNC'd runners?
Sorry, damn changes in forum settings time out after just a few minutes. I have taken to drafting on a word doc for anything past 150 words. Drafted a detailed reply and lost it..

RRC being used because John says itís the best match for my build. F20 has smaller ID and shorter runners more optimized for itís rod ratio, cam timing etc. The RRC will make more power. Rough plan is to hack the RRC in the middle of the runners, flip the plenum. John also adds a special contoured spacer to the TB to improve #1 filling. Iíll post pics once we have it mocked up.
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