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Old 02-24-2015, 05:43 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
What if I told that I have already figured it out?
I would say you are foolish to not have gotten one to Emilio before he went with the k-pro.
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Old 02-24-2015, 07:22 PM   #82
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I would say you are foolish to not have gotten one to Emilio before he went with the k-pro.
If Dmitris offers an ECU that converts a BP to 1.62:1 rod ratio and 290cfm stock ports then yah, he's foolish.
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Old 02-24-2015, 08:35 PM   #83
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Awesome, hope I can check it out at MRLS. Will there be rides too?
If all goes according to plan, we will be trailering our K24 NB out to MRLS as well. And of course there will be rides given. Plus the car should be a whole new animal by then....

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Emilio and K-Miata, I'll hate your guts forever if you turn half the people in this forum into Honda fanboys.

don't fight it.
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Old 02-24-2015, 10:00 PM   #84
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Honestly, the K is a bit more than the car needs to be fun. Think about what the car could have been if it had even the equivalent of a B18. Honda is an engine company. Their chassis are largely forgettable. Mazda is a chassis and driving experience company. Their engines are largely forgettable or in the case of the rotary, we wish we could forget. Honda engine and the NA/NB = best of both worlds, and relatively cheap too given the almost absurdly fun little mutant you end up with.
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Old 02-25-2015, 04:23 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Honda is an engine company. Their chassis are largely forgettable.
This, I've always felt the same way. This should be made into a sticker.
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Old 02-25-2015, 07:51 PM   #86
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The S2000 chassis is forgettable? Or is that the "largely" exception? Oh and the NSX?

But yes, Honda is an engine company. And basically every Mazda ever would have been better with the equivalent Honda engine of whichever era.
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Old 02-25-2015, 07:54 PM   #87
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Honda themselves say they are an engine company (go to 3:16):

I'll get some pictures tonight of the hood webbing I cut and the amount it gained. I think even with a K20 I would I cut that as it gains a lot of clearance.
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Old 02-25-2015, 09:56 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
The S2000 chassis is forgettable? Or is that the "largely" exception? Oh and the NSX?

But yes, Honda is an engine company. And basically every Mazda ever would have been better with the equivalent Honda engine of whichever era.
S2000, for all it's vtec glory is an inferior chassis to the C5 and Miata, both of which predate it. I had one, loved it but the handling sucked until I fixed the geometry problems. Silly huge front, tiny rear sway bars, roll center adjusters, altered stagger percentage, altered rolling diameter stagger. It was very nearly as good as stock NA6 when it was done. The S2000 didn't leave the factory right but can be made right with enough modification. So can a Mustang, that doesn't make it a great chassis. But oh that engine. NSX is in a class of its own, not an everyman car. Mazda built a million Miatas. A million.
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Old 02-25-2015, 10:29 PM   #89
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Yea...I wouldn't say the S2000 was great...by it's certainly not "forgettable".

Heck, as soon as you start to think that, the car will snap oversteer on track and kill you!

Honestly, the T3 S2000 I raced in 2013 was a great race car and was/is almost entirely a stock S2000CR. Our cars had H&R dampers, and OSGiken diff. Other than that, stock OEM. Even springs.
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Old 02-25-2015, 11:36 PM   #90
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Here is what I cut on the hood bracing with a K24:



Before and after:

Attached Thumbnails
Deviate gets a K20A2-img_2083_zpso2wpju4s.jpg   Deviate gets a K20A2-img_2084_zps5t6afmoo.jpg   Deviate gets a K20A2-20150222_135447_zpsmaxmcq4r.jpg   Deviate gets a K20A2-img_2086_zpsh34ra953.jpg  
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Old 02-26-2015, 08:34 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
The S2000 chassis is forgettable? Or is that the "largely" exception? Oh and the NSX?

But yes, Honda is an engine company. And basically every Mazda ever would have been better with the equivalent Honda engine of whichever era.
I was going to counter with the Integra TypeR, widely thought of as one of the greatest handling FWD cars ever.

Or the CRX, also great handling.

Mazda has the MX5, (granted a lot were sold, but it's still just the one car and?
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Old 02-26-2015, 11:58 AM   #92
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I created the K Miata kit for a reason: as Emilio said, I think its the best of both worlds.

However, don't write off Hondas just because they are FWD. A well set up Honda is no joke, and there are enough professional wins to prove it. Just ask these guys: RealTime Racing
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Old 02-26-2015, 12:06 PM   #93
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I will remove the Honda vs. Mazda posts if they get out of hand here...

There's just a few years experience in this thread claiming the Mazda chassis/Honda motor claims, I'd just listen to that experience rather than start comparing one or two cars.
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Old 02-26-2015, 12:17 PM   #94
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Honda troll successful. Now lets all talk about my car again.

Sorry Josh
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Old 02-26-2015, 12:24 PM   #95
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Meh, I'm really just trying to avoid the email. "Emilio700 has reported this post

This is the reason that the user gave:
Starting about here can we clip and start a new thread about Honda vs. Mazdas in race prep? Pertinent info getting lost and also derailing K-swap discussion."

Sound familiar?

I'm also contacting Rev about a K-compatible ECU. Although I think Kisersoze, the owner of the k-swap I'll be doing, already bought a k-pro.
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Old 02-26-2015, 02:48 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
The S2000 chassis is forgettable? Or is that the "largely" exception? Oh and the NSX?

But yes, Honda is an engine company. And basically every Mazda ever would have been better with the equivalent Honda engine of whichever era.
In all fairness, the average person is not thinking about the S2K or NSX when they utter the word "Honda." They are thinking Civic, Accord, and Integra. Things like the S2K, NSX, and ITR are exceptions to the norm. The average Honda enthusiast doesn't have/can't afford one(S2K is getting cheaper though) and their production numbers were low relative to other Hondas. The Miata is easily the most attainable sports car there is, both in cost and availability.

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Originally Posted by njn63 View Post
Here is what I cut on the hood bracing with a K24:
I saw that the One Lap car closed its hood no problems, but it's an NB. So the K24 will have to poke out of the hood of the NA Miata? Or are both pictures taken without pushing the hood all the way down? Please tell me it's the latter. I also saw something about KMiata offering a different valve cover to help with hood clearance. Maybe you need that?
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Old 02-26-2015, 02:54 PM   #97
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I saw that the One Lap car closed its hood no problems, but it's an NB. So the K24 will have to poke out of the hood of the NA Miata? Or are both pictures taken without pushing the hood all the way down? Please tell me it's the latter. I also saw something about KMiata offering a different valve cover to help with hood clearance. Maybe you need that?
Yes, Nick and I discussed this already. We are only about 20 mins apart in the chicago area, so I'll be getting Nick one of the valve covers to test fit within the next couple days.

k20 and k24 clear the NB hood fine
k20 clears NA hood with minor trimming the skeleton
k24 clears NA hood with a trim and also a custom valve cover
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Old 03-04-2015, 06:48 PM   #98
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Default Deviate gets a new oiling system

After many conversations with John about the oiling system compromises, it is clear that the system designed to feed a 7500rpm K24 will not feed an 8800rpm K20 without issues. The first is capacity. On their road racing engines, they actually increase the volume of the stock K20 pan. Also the K is sensitive to the length of the pick up tube. Too long and it will create too much resistance, eventually leading to cavitation. Even with a transfer tube added in between front and rear sumps, there won't be enough oil volume and it doesn't fix the long transfer tube. So we either find a way to store 5qts in the front sump to shorten the pick up tube or find another way to get oil into the engine.

External oil pump
The decision was made to move to an external, belt driven oil pump picking up from both sumps. Ditch the stock oil pump entirely. Add in an Accusump and we should be safe to 9200 even on high banks, even though the long block is only safe to 8800. While we are at it we will relocate the front sump drain plug since it's now the lowest thing on the car.

The input will be a sandwich plate on the oil filter boss, sort of like a dry sump. Pump will sit low on the driver side, driven of the same belt as the alternator I think.

Exhaust routing
In addition to this, we are cutting the PPF just below the shifter. The exhaust will crossover there. This will allow for a better header design and recapture the lost oil pan volume. The PPF will be reinforced to make up for the big notch. Being an NA, we will have to com up with something clever to keep the speedo cable as that's pretty much where the exhaust will pass through. We though about switching to an NB dash but we already have those pretty revlimiter gauge faces.

Knowing what I know now, I would have stuck with a K24 like everyone else. We are already too invested in this K20A2 variant to turn back so.. onward!
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Old 03-04-2015, 07:21 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Being an NA, we will have to com up with something clever to keep the speedo cable as that's pretty much where the exhaust will pass through. We though about switching to an NB dash but we already have those pretty revlimiter gauge faces.
Won't the NB cluster support those faces while offering a digital speedo? That's what we're doing on the SR20 car.
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Old 03-04-2015, 07:29 PM   #100
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Won't the NB cluster support those faces while offering a digital speedo? That's what we're doing on the SR20 car.
Thus my mention of the NB option and why I don't want to go that route.
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