rleete

iTrader: (21)

I was never much for the Atom, but I give it some slack as it is esentially a locost, and pretty much the first turnkey one. Unfortunately, it is anything but low cost.


Funny, that one I kinda like. I guess what I hate about the exocet is the lack of a body combined with no flowing lines. Since this one has a full body, I am much less inclined to be critical. Hell, it is far better than the generic coupes that all the major manufacturers are putting out. Eveything looks designed by committee these days.

mgeoffriau

iTrader: (7)

Yeah, I just read through his build thread on the owners forum. If he puts as much care into preparing the kits for sale as he did in building his own car, this could be a good situation.

I'm not sure exactly how much I'd be able to enjoy a fair weather/track toy like that (90% of our year is 90+ degrees or raining), but it's tempting at that price.

mgeoffriau

iTrader: (7)

The more build threads I read and pics I see, the less its looks bother me. This orange one looks pretty damn good in my opinion, and I think the center stripe helps the front end appear less bulky.













I just can't commit to a project that would get so little use, however. I don't know realistically how many track days a year I could do, and between the weather normally being either 90+ degrees or raining (plus the necessity of wearing a helmet for almost any driving over 50 mph), I doubt I'd even enjoy driving it around town.

I still want one. I just can't figure out what I'd do with it.

damir130

Nope, with the driver in the car. I'm guessing the lightest Max5 miata's without their roll cage would weigh around 810-830kg.

Spending 6500$ on a kit car, I would like the improvement to be more then skipping a large meal. A seven type car should never weigh more then 600kg

Faeflora

iTrader: (2)

Barfy barf puke. Disgusting.

devin mac

iTrader: (2)

i honestly can't decide if i like it or not...

i feel like i want to like it, but i would like a 7/caterham clone better.

also:

at least with a caterham clone you have the option for a cage and top, so it's a little more street friendly.

mgeoffriau

iTrader: (7)

They do make these with a cage, look under their Exocet race page.

rharris19

iTrader: (41)

plus its not like you would be driving these anytime you would really need a top. The alternative roll bar looks much better. I have a picture of one next to an nc that I need to upload.

codrus

The problem is that it's supposed to look like an Atom, but the Atom is designed to be rear/mid engine, not front. Everything is proportioned wrong, that's why the front end looks chunky.

--Ian

rharris19

iTrader: (41)

It was designed as an exoskeleton car, not to be an atom replica. Obviously much is attibuted to the atom, but the purpspose is not to be identical. The dimensions of this car pretty much have to be what they are to facilitate using as much as it can from the Miata without much, if any, custom work.

Agreed though, the looks aren't all there. There are a few things I would change if I get one.

unevolved

It looks like there are a lot of design concessions made for the sake of keeping donor parts. Like, do you really need to run Miata coilovers? I understand the point is to keep cost and fab work down (when you're making a frame, control arms aren't THAT hard), but it seems to me the frame could be much narrower (and therefore lighter) around the front and rear. If one were to use motorcycle shocks with bellcranks in a pushrod-style arrangement that would allow more flexibility with suspension pickup points, reduce unsprung weight, and allow for much better packaging.

Miata suspension geometry is optimized for a much heavier car with a very different center of gravity and moments of inertia. I could be completely wrong on this, but it looks like the designers of this car didn't really put any thought into the suspension geometry and just blindly copied a Miata. Looks like there's lots of gains to be had. For example, if you were to make the frame narrower and hug the engine tighter, you could increase the control arm length which would keep wheel movement more linear. It's completely feasible to run stock Miata uprights and brakes with a custom suspension. I've seen it done, and for cheap.

tl;dr Suspension design is stock Miata.

mgeoffriau

iTrader: (7)

That's all true, but you're ignoring the fact that the reason they accepted all those suspension compromises was to enable the end-user (err, builder) to simply pull the body off a Miata PFF and drop the tube frame on to it. Custom suspension arms would complicate that process. Not a huge deal to most of us, but not part of their design. Saying that it can be done for cheap is misleading; nobody has yet delivered a complete kit like this for $6000 (and no, Locost plans that require 95% fabrication don't count) that includes the kind of R&D you are talking about.

tl:dr Don't expect Ariel Atom levels of design and complexity for $6000.

unevolved

That's a very good point. I suppose I should have been more clear about what I was trying to convey.

From a manufacturing standpoint, if you're already making a tube-frame chassis, you're set up for welding, tube fitting, and jig alignments. Making control arms would require no additional processes than you're already doing.

From a design standpoint, yes, it would require much more thorough Engineering. Again, I feel like no real analysis went into the suspension geometry, for better or worse. A copy of WinGeo is only $500 (a lot, yes, but for engineering software, incredibly cheap. 10 licenses of Catia V5 can cost almost half a million dollars), and that could augment whatever design program they're currently using to properly design a suspension. For whatever reason, that level of work wasn't done. I'm well aware of how much engineering time costs, but at the same time, an engineer working from home can accomplish a lot of work on their off-time.

An idea I've kept in the back of my mind for some time circulates around what we're discussing here. An optimized track-toy open wheel, open cockpit race car that uses as many off-the-shelf components as possible to maximize cost and serviceability for the end user. Using things like Miata uprights, outer CV joints, and differentials combined with a turbo'd Honda single-cam motor could produce a sub-1500# car with 200rwhp for very cheap. I think I could do a kit for less than $6,000 using mild steel, and I think it'd be possible to build the entire car for less than $10,000.

tl;dr Random tangent. This car that's the focus of this thread makes no pretenses about being a race car or having optimized suspension geometry, I'm just an FSAE nerd with too much suspension on the brain.

rharris19

iTrader: (41)

The new lightweight version of the car is going to be made with integrated subframes front/rear and smaller tubing on the sides. Total it will be around 75lbs lighter than the normal one. Expected weight for the normal car is 660kgs and 625kgs for the lightweight. I think a lightweight could get right at or below 600kgs or roughly 1325lbs.

Link and picture:
http://www.mevowners.proboards.com/i...ay&thread=1799

jacob300zx

When is this hitting the US?

damir130

Once you move to a car not using the subframes you might as well move to a generic locost chassis based on miata parts and save another 200kgs

rharris19

iTrader: (41)

You still use all the suspension parts from the miata, but the subframes are just integrated now. I fail to see how that is what would move me to use a generic locost kit. I have well developed suspension components available if I stay with this kit and everything I need can be taken straight from the donor car with little to no fabrication.

I really don't see how you could loose another 200kgs (441lbs). In fact I am going to say that it would be impossible to do so using the same drivetrain. Two people can lift the lightweight frame, so I can't see why you think it is so heavy. My goal is to build one to be around 1350 with all the turbo hardware. We shall see though.

There are already a couple here. Another shipment of frames are coming in mid to late January.

Bond

iTrader: (6)

Spend another 3k and get a formula ford.

rharris19

iTrader: (41)

I am not looking for another dedicated track car as I already have 3 of those. This just looks like a fun car to have for a while that is not very practical, but would be a blast to drive around. It would be taken to the track, but still streetable.

mgeoffriau

iTrader: (7)

Be careful where you park your Exocet when you take it for its maiden voyage.

http://jalopnik.com/5904702/watch-a-...ts-first-drive