Link = Chineese
03-03-2007, 10:30 AM
#1
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Link = Chineese
Seriously, what genius programmed the MiataLink? I'd like to have a "talk" with him. 
It's not bad to deal with if you're just following the programming directions (which are excellent!), but there's really no way to figure out many of its parameters on your own. That makes comprehending everything difficult, and forces you to continue to work with FM.
On the positive side, installation is super easy. The UPS man dropped off the package at 6.30 and I had the Link in by 9, including stopping for several phone calls a dinner break.
And now it seems my NB o2 took a ****, so off I go...
It's not bad to deal with if you're just following the programming directions (which are excellent!), but there's really no way to figure out many of its parameters on your own. That makes comprehending everything difficult, and forces you to continue to work with FM.
On the positive side, installation is super easy. The UPS man dropped off the package at 6.30 and I had the Link in by 9, including stopping for several phone calls a dinner break.
And now it seems my NB o2 took a ****, so off I go...
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03-03-2007, 12:54 PM
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When I installed it there were a few things that got me tripped up, but I finally got it. I really haven't messed with it a whole lot. 1 problem you might have and I certainly do, is that it is very on/off switch at very low throttle. It sort of bucks, and I have yet to figure out what the hell to do to fix it. Sry, kinda got into a rant there, but if you have any issues let me know and maybe I can help.
-Michael-
-Michael-
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03-03-2007, 07:49 PM
#4
Ben just post your questions here (in this thread) since a few of us have been through it already. Once you get past understanding the architecture of the software then you'll be set to use it at will.
You need consider that FM (FM's contracted programmer) has seriously extended the capability of the ecu and that comes at the price of the interface IMO. BUT you will get past that eventually. I recommend downloading PLink and picking up a Palm M500, the serial link (mod it for the palm) and start off that way. The keypad sucks. The palm does as much for the LINK as FM's software. You'll have the ability to load various maps, datalog and read multiple data inputs at once.
Query away! - rob
You need consider that FM (FM's contracted programmer) has seriously extended the capability of the ecu and that comes at the price of the interface IMO. BUT you will get past that eventually. I recommend downloading PLink and picking up a Palm M500, the serial link (mod it for the palm) and start off that way. The keypad sucks. The palm does as much for the LINK as FM's software. You'll have the ability to load various maps, datalog and read multiple data inputs at once.
Query away! - rob
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03-03-2007, 08:23 PM
#5
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the on/off switch thing is likely your idle or overrun MAP setting. The FMLink tuning manual covers how to tune it... something like your 2k+ rpm coasting MAP, minus a couple kPa.
the bucking is prob not enough fuel or too much advance in those zones.
Ray, the codewriter guy hangs out on the miatapower list. He has done a good job, but it is built on top of Link's initial effort, and quite frankly most people (me) don't want to futz with cold/hot start settings, inj. voltage corrections, things drifting out of tune between seasons etc. :P
Most common problems can be fixed by cruising the m.net or miatapower archives - a big plus when you're downunder, or working after hours!
the bucking is prob not enough fuel or too much advance in those zones.
Ray, the codewriter guy hangs out on the miatapower list. He has done a good job, but it is built on top of Link's initial effort, and quite frankly most people (me) don't want to futz with cold/hot start settings, inj. voltage corrections, things drifting out of tune between seasons etc. :P
Most common problems can be fixed by cruising the m.net or miatapower archives - a big plus when you're downunder, or working after hours!
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03-03-2007, 09:56 PM
#6
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Trust me, I have tried damn near everything with nothing positive happening. In fact I made a post over on M.net about it and it looks like I'm not the only one that this happens to.
-Michael-
-Michael-
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03-03-2007, 10:21 PM
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Jay,
The installation is easy enough. What's tough about programming is that you have to reference zone numbers to actions. There's a list of zone numbers in the Tuning Manual's appendix which helps tons. What's super tough is the Link doesn't use intuitive values for anything. You have to look at the value given, then look it up in a chart to turn it into an intuitive value. IE AFR 14.7:1 = o2 77. WTF is 77? The units are meaningless.
Does the car run? Yes. Does it run *well*? No. The EMU was better.
Rob,
Thanks a lot. Here's my my first issue. I did the initial installation and set up per FM's instructions. I went through the procedure to begin the coarse tuning. The Link added fuel and added fuel. Everywhere, just added fuel. It added enough fuel to where my standalone wb was showing 9.5:1 and the car would misfire horribly. It runs better with the default map than it does with any autotuning applied. So I turned to the Injector DC/o2 screen, and saw that the o2 value was parked at 75, which I cross refrenced to something like .07V output from the NB o2. I assumed this was a faulty o2 sensor, so I replaced it, but there was no improvement. So I replaced the wire between the o2 sensor and ECU. No improvement. So I did voltage and continutity checks on the o2 sensor wire at the harness. I had voltage at the harness. Then I opened the ECU case and followed the copper traces out of the nb o2 input pin. I have nb sensor voltage at the ECU, but the keypad always shows o2=75. It's never moved from 75 ever. So that explains why coarse tuning wants to dump fuel; it thought that the car was running super lean. It turns out that there are 2 inputs for o2 sensors, 1 for nb & 1 for wb. In stock form, they are connected. Indeed I had continuity between those 2 pins.
I'm thinking that there's a defect in my ecu, but I'm open to any suggestions.
Ben
The installation is easy enough. What's tough about programming is that you have to reference zone numbers to actions. There's a list of zone numbers in the Tuning Manual's appendix which helps tons. What's super tough is the Link doesn't use intuitive values for anything. You have to look at the value given, then look it up in a chart to turn it into an intuitive value. IE AFR 14.7:1 = o2 77. WTF is 77? The units are meaningless.
Does the car run? Yes. Does it run *well*? No. The EMU was better.
Rob,
Thanks a lot. Here's my my first issue. I did the initial installation and set up per FM's instructions. I went through the procedure to begin the coarse tuning. The Link added fuel and added fuel. Everywhere, just added fuel. It added enough fuel to where my standalone wb was showing 9.5:1 and the car would misfire horribly. It runs better with the default map than it does with any autotuning applied. So I turned to the Injector DC/o2 screen, and saw that the o2 value was parked at 75, which I cross refrenced to something like .07V output from the NB o2. I assumed this was a faulty o2 sensor, so I replaced it, but there was no improvement. So I replaced the wire between the o2 sensor and ECU. No improvement. So I did voltage and continutity checks on the o2 sensor wire at the harness. I had voltage at the harness. Then I opened the ECU case and followed the copper traces out of the nb o2 input pin. I have nb sensor voltage at the ECU, but the keypad always shows o2=75. It's never moved from 75 ever. So that explains why coarse tuning wants to dump fuel; it thought that the car was running super lean. It turns out that there are 2 inputs for o2 sensors, 1 for nb & 1 for wb. In stock form, they are connected. Indeed I had continuity between those 2 pins.
I'm thinking that there's a defect in my ecu, but I'm open to any suggestions.
Ben
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03-04-2007, 09:11 AM
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No bro... Narrowband for coarse tuning in vacuum. The nb sensor was replaced yesterday.
I did not do the wideband modification, and I tested the Link board to make sure that there was continuity between the nb and wb pins.
I have tested for nb o2 voltage at the Link by opening the ecu cover and probing the correct trace. The Link keypad always showed o2 = 75, despite the fact that the sensor was varying its voltage output (I know this because I had a DMM on it!). The keypad also showed o2 = 75 when I unplugged the o2 sensor at the connector at the firewall.
o2 = 75 referenced to something like .07V.
I did not do the wideband modification, and I tested the Link board to make sure that there was continuity between the nb and wb pins.
I have tested for nb o2 voltage at the Link by opening the ecu cover and probing the correct trace. The Link keypad always showed o2 = 75, despite the fact that the sensor was varying its voltage output (I know this because I had a DMM on it!). The keypad also showed o2 = 75 when I unplugged the o2 sensor at the connector at the firewall.
o2 = 75 referenced to something like .07V.
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03-04-2007, 12:11 PM
#10
IMO the simplest process to tune is to load the default map then go out and make a nice long run trying to cover as many zones as possible while datalogging. Then come back and review the log in DLL (free trial version for download). Make the necessary adjustments to the map on the palm, then upload that map to the LINK. And repeat the process.
Autotuning was just too slow of a process for me. Doing the manual tuning allowed me to get to the point of manual fine tuning quickly. I've done less than 10 datalogs and have most of my WOT tuning on AF target based on WB output. That's from somebody who was learning how to do this during the process.
Does sound like something is funky with NBo2. Miatapower and emailing Jeremy at FM are the best ways to get input on your findings. It's how I came to the conclusion that my Link had a bad component for the boost control. Though your problem will be a bigger issue since that input is vital for day-to-day tuning tweaks. If you do the above manual tuning, you could move on to the WB and see if that works. -rob
Autotuning was just too slow of a process for me. Doing the manual tuning allowed me to get to the point of manual fine tuning quickly. I've done less than 10 datalogs and have most of my WOT tuning on AF target based on WB output. That's from somebody who was learning how to do this during the process.
Does sound like something is funky with NBo2. Miatapower and emailing Jeremy at FM are the best ways to get input on your findings. It's how I came to the conclusion that my Link had a bad component for the boost control. Though your problem will be a bigger issue since that input is vital for day-to-day tuning tweaks. If you do the above manual tuning, you could move on to the WB and see if that works. -rob
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03-04-2007, 01:10 PM
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Thanks Rob.
Working autotune in all ranges is one of the reasons why I went with the Link.
I don't have a Palm, but have no problem picking one up, assuming that the Link starts acknowledging o2 sensor input...
I'll get with Jeremy tomorrow (Monday) and see what help he can offer. How do I get on the power list?
Working autotune in all ranges is one of the reasons why I went with the Link.
I don't have a Palm, but have no problem picking one up, assuming that the Link starts acknowledging o2 sensor input...I'll get with Jeremy tomorrow (Monday) and see what help he can offer. How do I get on the power list?
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03-04-2007, 01:12 PM
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Rob-i have a few questions for you.(since you where so helpful in the past)
i emailed fm saying i was running rich at 6lbs of boost and i was using the stock 440 default with the ''100 points'' of fuel.and wanted to know what i should set the master fuel at for 6,12psi of boost.they told me to get a wideband and tune the zones.
but i remember you telling someone to raise the master fuel becuase tey had 330cc injectors.
well anyway i thought the master fuel set you to a rough point of where you want your fuel for pounds of boost.can you give a defualt master fuel points for 6,10,12,psi thanks mike.
i emailed fm saying i was running rich at 6lbs of boost and i was using the stock 440 default with the ''100 points'' of fuel.and wanted to know what i should set the master fuel at for 6,12psi of boost.they told me to get a wideband and tune the zones.
but i remember you telling someone to raise the master fuel becuase tey had 330cc injectors.
well anyway i thought the master fuel set you to a rough point of where you want your fuel for pounds of boost.can you give a defualt master fuel points for 6,10,12,psi thanks mike.
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03-04-2007, 01:19 PM
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master fuel has no relationship to where your boost control is set.
The default map was built around 440 cc/min injectors. So if your injectors are a bit larger or smaller than 440, you adjust the master fuel accordingly. For instance, I'm running 550s, 440/550=.8 so my master fuel is set at 80, which means that the Link reduces its Injector Duty Cycle to 80% of the defaults programmed.
Master fuel controls an overall parameter, where you need to trim fuel in certain zones only. IE if you are running perfectly at all points except MAP 6 psi over atmo and 5500 RPM, you need to trim fuel only in that corresponding zone.
The default map was built around 440 cc/min injectors. So if your injectors are a bit larger or smaller than 440, you adjust the master fuel accordingly. For instance, I'm running 550s, 440/550=.8 so my master fuel is set at 80, which means that the Link reduces its Injector Duty Cycle to 80% of the defaults programmed.
Master fuel controls an overall parameter, where you need to trim fuel in certain zones only. IE if you are running perfectly at all points except MAP 6 psi over atmo and 5500 RPM, you need to trim fuel only in that corresponding zone.
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03-04-2007, 01:51 PM
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should i just **** it,and turn the bost to 12lbs.im really contemplating this because i have 440,gt2560,intercooler.and thats similar to a fm kit.plus ill be using 93 octane fm uses what 91.
arent the stock defaults for 12psi
i think ill order the laptop conector from fm today
arent the stock defaults for 12psi
i think ill order the laptop conector from fm today
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03-04-2007, 02:33 PM
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Can you check zones z 26 -z31 for me. (lambda targets)
Those numbers (NB) should be:
z26 : 76
z27 : 77
z28 : 80
z29 : 88
z30 : 90
z31 : 91
http://www.flyinmiata.com/support/O2_targets.php
Those numbers (NB) should be:
z26 : 76
z27 : 77
z28 : 80
z29 : 88
z30 : 90
z31 : 91
http://www.flyinmiata.com/support/O2_targets.php
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