How not to swap your FD.
03-30-2010, 07:36 AM
#1
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How not to swap your FD.
Came across this through another forum, its nuts. Had to share.
How NOT to swap your FD. 56k, no no!!!
Here is the OP's yt video, 01 LM7 from a Silverado into a 97 Astro.
How NOT to swap your FD. 56k, no no!!!
Here is the OP's yt video, 01 LM7 from a Silverado into a 97 Astro.
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03-30-2010, 12:57 PM
#8
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Man. That swap was an ugly pile of work. The apology they give about how "every business screws up once in a while" just doesn't wash. That swap wasn't just one single mistake bobbing along on their river of success; it wasn't just one screwup; it wasn't just a couple of things they overlooked. That was a freaking barge full of fail.
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03-30-2010, 01:22 PM
#9
Im sure other cars have left with just as much fail. They probably pay Jessie off the fast and furious to peruse the internet to put out fires and get pictures of their bad work deleted. I hate shops like this. They do **** work, and then try to play nice, just to FUBAR someone elses car.
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03-30-2010, 02:17 PM
#11
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Found link to pics in my cache:
TDC pictures by eat-pez - Photobucket
Old (shitty shop) pictures and new (his fixes) pics are mixed together, so it's a bit confusing. The shitty work is pretty self-evident though.
TDC pictures by eat-pez - Photobucket
Old (shitty shop) pictures and new (his fixes) pics are mixed together, so it's a bit confusing. The shitty work is pretty self-evident though.
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03-30-2010, 03:37 PM
#12
Below was their official statement that they posted on one of our local forums when they saw the thread was on there:
Still not a fan...
Originally Posted by TDC
Guys, just so you know, this is Hubert. I'm the tuner and I've been using this screen name ever since we first started posting setups here. Before that, it was Chris, the owner. Keep in mind the forum was locked back then and I couldn't register under my widely used username of "Spent". Just wanted you to be aware of that and nothing else. Below is our official statement.
There is absolutely no defending this situation or anything relating to it. There are points to be made on our end but it’s too late, the damage has been done and we are ready to move past this. Yes, it’s regrettable. Yes, it could have been handled differently and it should have. We can all agree on that.
For the record, this particular project dates back over a year now. The issue was addressed and handled with the customer before. We are transparent in what we do and have no problem standing up to our end of the bargain. The customer was appropriately refunded as he rightfully should have been. For all intended purposes, we (including the customer) considered this issue closed and still do. This issue being paraded online for any purpose after the fact a resolution was reached is sadly regrettable.
Speaking more in general terms, some of you guys have been following our work online or at our shop and know what we are perfectly capable of. Every business at one point or another screws something up majorly beyond the norm and we, along with every other business are not immune to that. Sometimes you hear about a business mishap on the forums, media, etc., and often you don’t for whatever reason. Sometimes businesses address their issues with their customer(s) and sometimes they flat out disingenuously don’t. If judging us negatively on our downfall despite our otherwise proven track record and how we resolved this issue with the customer before this was paraded online seems just and fair, then by all means do judge us accordingly. As stated earlier, we hold ourselves accountable and will not walk away from our responsibility. At the end when it’s all said and done, as a business, we learned, made amends and moved forward since. Rightfully so, this will be officially the last time this issue is publicly addressed by us regardless of statements or comments made by anyone other than the owner of the car.
We don’t believe anything should be given to us or that we deserve any credit or mercy. What we can say is that we will continue to put out and present quality work and let such work continue to speak for our skills, ability and judgment in the hopes of regaining lost trust, reputation and momentum.
With humility and respect,
Top Dead Center
There is absolutely no defending this situation or anything relating to it. There are points to be made on our end but it’s too late, the damage has been done and we are ready to move past this. Yes, it’s regrettable. Yes, it could have been handled differently and it should have. We can all agree on that.
For the record, this particular project dates back over a year now. The issue was addressed and handled with the customer before. We are transparent in what we do and have no problem standing up to our end of the bargain. The customer was appropriately refunded as he rightfully should have been. For all intended purposes, we (including the customer) considered this issue closed and still do. This issue being paraded online for any purpose after the fact a resolution was reached is sadly regrettable.
Speaking more in general terms, some of you guys have been following our work online or at our shop and know what we are perfectly capable of. Every business at one point or another screws something up majorly beyond the norm and we, along with every other business are not immune to that. Sometimes you hear about a business mishap on the forums, media, etc., and often you don’t for whatever reason. Sometimes businesses address their issues with their customer(s) and sometimes they flat out disingenuously don’t. If judging us negatively on our downfall despite our otherwise proven track record and how we resolved this issue with the customer before this was paraded online seems just and fair, then by all means do judge us accordingly. As stated earlier, we hold ourselves accountable and will not walk away from our responsibility. At the end when it’s all said and done, as a business, we learned, made amends and moved forward since. Rightfully so, this will be officially the last time this issue is publicly addressed by us regardless of statements or comments made by anyone other than the owner of the car.
We don’t believe anything should be given to us or that we deserve any credit or mercy. What we can say is that we will continue to put out and present quality work and let such work continue to speak for our skills, ability and judgment in the hopes of regaining lost trust, reputation and momentum.
With humility and respect,
Top Dead Center
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03-30-2010, 03:53 PM
#13
Ha.
That's actually where this monstrosity (recently posted) was tuned and tested.
Top_Dead_Center :: View topic - something a little different
Yep, that's the CL Honda with the cattleguard intercooler mount.
Also notice they're using a DynoJet, so I have no idea how they're really putting a tune on their creations.
That's actually where this monstrosity (recently posted) was tuned and tested.
Top_Dead_Center :: View topic - something a little different
Yep, that's the CL Honda with the cattleguard intercooler mount.
Also notice they're using a DynoJet, so I have no idea how they're really putting a tune on their creations.
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03-30-2010, 03:53 PM
#14
Someone on the local forum copied it:
How NOT to swap your FD. 56k, no no!!!
Here's another angle on that sender wire. Clean routing, aye?
We all know what this is. I've seen alot of this, but this is by far the worst
After going through 3 F body clutch MCs, they somehow get one to work (found out later, not so well). I don't have a picture of their adapter brackets, but they were ****. How bout that crooked rez? Would've been so hard to mount it in the Igniter's spot? Or just share the brake rez?
How bout that PS line???
Zip tie to hold in 16psi?
4" TB reduced to a 3" elbow, enlarged to a 3.5" MAF... nice
Remember this thread is about an LS6 swapped FD? The shop charged him $12k + $2k for the LS6 upgrade. Huh?
Unfortunately, the only upgrade he got was the plastic LS6 fuel rail covers...
Maybe this could have something to do with the high idle?
Now, most of use reuse the stock fuel hardlines. But do we bend the fuel line holder down to hold the lines 2" below the floor board?
Fuel line and brake line rubbing the tranny bolts... that's a fire or a wreck waiting to happen... whichever comes first...
Fuel lines, covered in Buck Rogers style heat protection, making their way up to the FMFPR
This might explain the shitty handling
Reused heater hoses. One from the FD, one from ???
The car had terrible exhaust leaks, but you'll find out later that this wasn't the problem
Will mismatched spark plugs work? Ya... would I put them on a customer's car... hell no.
How bout that intake boot and IAT siliconed inplace. Hell, if the silicone is good enough for the headers, must be good enough for the IAT too, right? Or they could use the stock gromment... right beside it....
Starter solenoid missing something?
Ya know, if you trim a little plastic indexing ridge off of the F body throttle cable, it'll fit the FD hole. Or, you could reuse the stock FD cable... or you can hog out the firewall
Remember, the shop's website said "Custom 3" Mandrel Bent Exhaust"? They were half right.... this is come custom ****! Here's the source of the exhaust leak. From the sound of it, I thought it was 2 or 3 big leaks. Turns out, it was about 40 small leaks with 2 or 3 big leaks. Also, they tried to MIG stainless to mild with their 110v Harbor Freight welder... awesome
Notice the mild/stainless/mild/stainless patern. Kind of artistic, just not very practical. This piece here is mild on top and stainless on the bottem.
The tranny was bolted to the bellhousing with quite an assortment of bolts, that were, sadly, all too long. So they were spaced with an assortment of washers, lockwashers, fender washers, rusty washers, black washers, white washers, skinny washers, fat washers, tall washers, small washers, I'm calling all washers
Appearantly, since the tranny didn't have a polymount (those who have tried a stock mount know what I'm talking about) there was some driveline flexing, enough to break the U-joint
There was so much more, like the 1/4" driveshaft bolts, stupid messy harness, O2 extensions, nasty fan wiring, the stock Fbody shifter arm, gauges didn't work, but here's the kicker
They reused the stock FD fuel pump wiring and bypassed the resistor, like some of us so. The problem is that they just connected the resistor wires together, put a bit of solder on them, and let it ride... After I put my braided fuel line in place, the solder joint crawled out of its hiding place and started arcing to the fuel line... Luckily the only thing that caught fire was the wire's insulation....
NOW. I spent a little time on it and here's what I came up with
My work here is done.
This is going to be the longest post I've made in a while. There's a story in here, but there will be plenty of educational pictures to show people who have never built a car like this, what NOT to do, what clean work can be, and what a little bit of extra effort can do for your car. The story is about Duke's LS6 RX7 (from the builder's site)
I've got a friend who used to be local to me (recently moved). He's the most knowledgable rotary RX7 guy I personally know. He's about 21 years old, but he's a sharp kid. He just finished building his 101mm turboed rotary. The damn turbo is as big as the engine! Highway monster. Granted, he's 1 bad-tank-of-gas away from a blown motor, but you all know what I mean.
Anyway, he sometimes hangs out at a shop in the next town over called Top Dead Center. They build imports and cater to the 'tuner' and 'drifter' crowd. I went up there once when he organized a Steve Kan tuning session to hang out.
About a year and a half ago, he told me that TDC was having a 'dyno night', 7pm until. $40 for 3 pulls. Well, I just got my vans swap done and I had recently gotten HP Tuners, so I figured I would put the van on the dyno and play with my program.
I showed up around 7 because I wanted to get the tuning done and get out of there since the Honda boys aren't really my crowd. There was a bunch of people hanging out and loud music playing, but no one on the dyno. I asked about it, and they said that they're ready whenever someone wants to put their car on. I said, "I'm ready"
"What do you got?"
"That van over there."
"It wont' fit."
"I'll take the ladders off."
For those who don't know, here's what I'm talking about.
YouTube- Astro SS, LM7 swapped
Well, we went back and forth, and they kept telling me it wouldn't fit on the dyno. The shop owner came over and said it wouldn't fit, but asked, "why do you wanna put a work van on the dyno anyway?"
"Because it has a motor swap"
I took him out and popped the hood .... "Whoa... Hey, we're getting ready to get an RX7 in here to do an LS1 swap, do you know anything about those?"
"Does a hobby horse have a wooden dick?"
I tell him that I can help with the wiring or AC or whatever, give him my card, and leave. Well, they never called.
A few weeks ago, I was at my friend shop (the guy with the Ecotec in the TR4) and the phone rings. I hear him answer it and say, "Hello?...... Well, he's standing right here." and hands me the phone. It was the guys up at the local hydrolics shop. They were looking for me, but didn't have my # and knew Jim would have it. I go up there a lot because the customers there are either buying custom hoses for heavy equipment, or custom cars. The reason he was looking for me was because the owner of the RX7 that TDC was swapping (going on a year and a half now) was up at the hydrolic shop because TDC couldn't get his clutch hydrolics right, so he was taking it upon himself to start looking for an answer. He discribed the problem and I knew the solution. This guy isn't mechanically inclined, so I told him to bring his car over and I have the parts at the house, ready to install.
A week goes by and the car never shows up, then I get a phone call from him. He's at TDC with the car and they were trying to talk him out of taking it to me and saying they can fix it. He puts me on the phone with their tech and he discribes the problem and asks what I would do about it. I tell him, "Listen bro, I'm sure under different circumstances, we would be great friends, but I know what you guys charged this guy for this swap ($14k they supplied everything but the roller, btw) and I know that you guys don't know what the hell you're doing. Now, if you wanna pay me to come up there and fix it, I will. Or if you wanna paypal me a consultant's fee, I can do that too, but I can't GIVE you information for a job you're overcharging for. For what you're charging, you should know what the **** you're doing. And there's no way that the route you're going will lead you to a working clutch." He just says something to the extent of, "well, I guess I'll just have to keep on researching." I text the owner a few mins later telling him that those guys didn't know what they were doing. A week later he brought me the car.
He wanted me to get the gauges working and give it a general once-over. The car was running like ****, BAD exhaust leaks, terrible handling and all in all, shitty craftsmanship. The bad part about it is that it's a very pretty car. He's got a fresh paint job a good looking carbon fiber hood, and a nice set of rims. But crack the hood.... ugg.
Where do I start with this thing??? It was a glittering jewell of colossal fail. Ok, they used a stock S13 radiator... wtf? I mean, if they're going through that much trouble, why not use the stock FD radiator? I mean the rotary was much more of a heater than the KA. No radiator shrouding and no fan shrouding. Just some of those radiator zip tie thingies to hold the fans on.
Granted, I've used those before, but NEVER on a customer car, especially one paying $14k.
No bushings on the radiator
Awesome, bushingless, upper radiator supports. Looks like they used a 110v Harbor Freight welder.
Don't know what to say about this cluster****, but it's not something that belongs on this car
Behind the radiator, on the frame rail, secured with a self tapping, sheetmetal screw is the FPR, or as I have started calling it the FMFPR (front mount fpr)
Worm gear on the fuel line... that's a fire waiting to happen
Appearantly, they followed Granny's instructions because everywhere Granny got it wrong, they did too. Like the oil pressure sender being above the header. How do you like that sender wire protection???
I've done it this way on manifold cars, when there wasn't enough room behind the intake, but NEVER on a header car. The headers are about 1/8" from the tapped aluminum piece that is tapped for the sender. The constant heating and cooling, and the differences in expansion and contraction of aluminum vs brass is an oil leak waiting to happen. Wait, whut?
I've done it this way on manifold cars, when there wasn't enough room behind the intake, but NEVER on a header car. The headers are about 1/8" from the tapped aluminum piece that is tapped for the sender. The constant heating and cooling, and the differences in expansion and contraction of aluminum vs brass is an oil leak waiting to happen. Wait, whut?I've got a friend who used to be local to me (recently moved). He's the most knowledgable rotary RX7 guy I personally know. He's about 21 years old, but he's a sharp kid. He just finished building his 101mm turboed rotary. The damn turbo is as big as the engine! Highway monster. Granted, he's 1 bad-tank-of-gas away from a blown motor, but you all know what I mean.
Anyway, he sometimes hangs out at a shop in the next town over called Top Dead Center. They build imports and cater to the 'tuner' and 'drifter' crowd. I went up there once when he organized a Steve Kan tuning session to hang out.
About a year and a half ago, he told me that TDC was having a 'dyno night', 7pm until. $40 for 3 pulls. Well, I just got my vans swap done and I had recently gotten HP Tuners, so I figured I would put the van on the dyno and play with my program.
I showed up around 7 because I wanted to get the tuning done and get out of there since the Honda boys aren't really my crowd. There was a bunch of people hanging out and loud music playing, but no one on the dyno. I asked about it, and they said that they're ready whenever someone wants to put their car on. I said, "I'm ready"
"What do you got?"
"That van over there."
"It wont' fit."
"I'll take the ladders off."
For those who don't know, here's what I'm talking about.
YouTube- Astro SS, LM7 swapped
Well, we went back and forth, and they kept telling me it wouldn't fit on the dyno. The shop owner came over and said it wouldn't fit, but asked, "why do you wanna put a work van on the dyno anyway?"
"Because it has a motor swap"
I took him out and popped the hood .... "Whoa... Hey, we're getting ready to get an RX7 in here to do an LS1 swap, do you know anything about those?"
"Does a hobby horse have a wooden dick?"
I tell him that I can help with the wiring or AC or whatever, give him my card, and leave. Well, they never called.
A few weeks ago, I was at my friend shop (the guy with the Ecotec in the TR4) and the phone rings. I hear him answer it and say, "Hello?...... Well, he's standing right here." and hands me the phone. It was the guys up at the local hydrolics shop. They were looking for me, but didn't have my # and knew Jim would have it. I go up there a lot because the customers there are either buying custom hoses for heavy equipment, or custom cars. The reason he was looking for me was because the owner of the RX7 that TDC was swapping (going on a year and a half now) was up at the hydrolic shop because TDC couldn't get his clutch hydrolics right, so he was taking it upon himself to start looking for an answer. He discribed the problem and I knew the solution. This guy isn't mechanically inclined, so I told him to bring his car over and I have the parts at the house, ready to install.
A week goes by and the car never shows up, then I get a phone call from him. He's at TDC with the car and they were trying to talk him out of taking it to me and saying they can fix it. He puts me on the phone with their tech and he discribes the problem and asks what I would do about it. I tell him, "Listen bro, I'm sure under different circumstances, we would be great friends, but I know what you guys charged this guy for this swap ($14k they supplied everything but the roller, btw) and I know that you guys don't know what the hell you're doing. Now, if you wanna pay me to come up there and fix it, I will. Or if you wanna paypal me a consultant's fee, I can do that too, but I can't GIVE you information for a job you're overcharging for. For what you're charging, you should know what the **** you're doing. And there's no way that the route you're going will lead you to a working clutch." He just says something to the extent of, "well, I guess I'll just have to keep on researching." I text the owner a few mins later telling him that those guys didn't know what they were doing. A week later he brought me the car.
He wanted me to get the gauges working and give it a general once-over. The car was running like ****, BAD exhaust leaks, terrible handling and all in all, shitty craftsmanship. The bad part about it is that it's a very pretty car. He's got a fresh paint job a good looking carbon fiber hood, and a nice set of rims. But crack the hood.... ugg.
Where do I start with this thing??? It was a glittering jewell of colossal fail. Ok, they used a stock S13 radiator... wtf? I mean, if they're going through that much trouble, why not use the stock FD radiator? I mean the rotary was much more of a heater than the KA. No radiator shrouding and no fan shrouding. Just some of those radiator zip tie thingies to hold the fans on.
Granted, I've used those before, but NEVER on a customer car, especially one paying $14k.
No bushings on the radiator
Awesome, bushingless, upper radiator supports. Looks like they used a 110v Harbor Freight welder.
Don't know what to say about this cluster****, but it's not something that belongs on this car
Behind the radiator, on the frame rail, secured with a self tapping, sheetmetal screw is the FPR, or as I have started calling it the FMFPR (front mount fpr)
Worm gear on the fuel line... that's a fire waiting to happen
Appearantly, they followed Granny's instructions because everywhere Granny got it wrong, they did too. Like the oil pressure sender being above the header. How do you like that sender wire protection???
I've done it this way on manifold cars, when there wasn't enough room behind the intake, but NEVER on a header car. The headers are about 1/8" from the tapped aluminum piece that is tapped for the sender. The constant heating and cooling, and the differences in expansion and contraction of aluminum vs brass is an oil leak waiting to happen. Wait, whut?
Here's another angle on that sender wire. Clean routing, aye?
We all know what this is. I've seen alot of this, but this is by far the worst
After going through 3 F body clutch MCs, they somehow get one to work (found out later, not so well). I don't have a picture of their adapter brackets, but they were ****. How bout that crooked rez? Would've been so hard to mount it in the Igniter's spot? Or just share the brake rez?
How bout that PS line???
Zip tie to hold in 16psi?
4" TB reduced to a 3" elbow, enlarged to a 3.5" MAF... nice
Remember this thread is about an LS6 swapped FD? The shop charged him $12k + $2k for the LS6 upgrade. Huh?
Unfortunately, the only upgrade he got was the plastic LS6 fuel rail covers...
Maybe this could have something to do with the high idle?
Now, most of use reuse the stock fuel hardlines. But do we bend the fuel line holder down to hold the lines 2" below the floor board?
Fuel line and brake line rubbing the tranny bolts... that's a fire or a wreck waiting to happen... whichever comes first...
Fuel lines, covered in Buck Rogers style heat protection, making their way up to the FMFPR
This might explain the shitty handling
Reused heater hoses. One from the FD, one from ???
The car had terrible exhaust leaks, but you'll find out later that this wasn't the problem
Will mismatched spark plugs work? Ya... would I put them on a customer's car... hell no.
How bout that intake boot and IAT siliconed inplace. Hell, if the silicone is good enough for the headers, must be good enough for the IAT too, right? Or they could use the stock gromment... right beside it....
Starter solenoid missing something?
Ya know, if you trim a little plastic indexing ridge off of the F body throttle cable, it'll fit the FD hole. Or, you could reuse the stock FD cable... or you can hog out the firewall
Remember, the shop's website said "Custom 3" Mandrel Bent Exhaust"? They were half right.... this is come custom ****! Here's the source of the exhaust leak. From the sound of it, I thought it was 2 or 3 big leaks. Turns out, it was about 40 small leaks with 2 or 3 big leaks. Also, they tried to MIG stainless to mild with their 110v Harbor Freight welder... awesome
Notice the mild/stainless/mild/stainless patern. Kind of artistic, just not very practical. This piece here is mild on top and stainless on the bottem.
The tranny was bolted to the bellhousing with quite an assortment of bolts, that were, sadly, all too long. So they were spaced with an assortment of washers, lockwashers, fender washers, rusty washers, black washers, white washers, skinny washers, fat washers, tall washers, small washers, I'm calling all washers
Appearantly, since the tranny didn't have a polymount (those who have tried a stock mount know what I'm talking about) there was some driveline flexing, enough to break the U-joint
There was so much more, like the 1/4" driveshaft bolts, stupid messy harness, O2 extensions, nasty fan wiring, the stock Fbody shifter arm, gauges didn't work, but here's the kicker
They reused the stock FD fuel pump wiring and bypassed the resistor, like some of us so. The problem is that they just connected the resistor wires together, put a bit of solder on them, and let it ride... After I put my braided fuel line in place, the solder joint crawled out of its hiding place and started arcing to the fuel line... Luckily the only thing that caught fire was the wire's insulation....
NOW. I spent a little time on it and here's what I came up with
My work here is done.
Reply
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03-31-2010, 08:19 AM
#16
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iTrader: (11)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 5,360
Total Cats: 43
There just isn't ANY excuse for this kind of ****!
A person by the name of "Steve" worked at a local "tuner shop" around ten years ago and did some work on the owner of the shop's car. IIRC it was a 1994 Supra, they upgraded to a T70 with all the trimmings. Long story short, "Tony" managed to catch this supra on fire by inadvertently drilling a hole in the gas tank installing some stereo stuff.
Fast forward 4 years later to find "Steve" has somehow managed to make a good name for himself in the car community. A friend of mine buys said 1994 Supra from the owner of this previous mentioned "Shop" who then takes it to "Steve's" newly opened and I think self owned "Shop" for a complete rebuild. Over the course of about a YEAR it took them to piece this thing back together, it lasted about 2 1/2 weeks until it was once again on fire. This time it burnt up pretty badly. Cause of fire was determined to be a stainless braided fuel line in extreme close proximity to the down pipe.
How does one asshat manage to set the same car on fire twice?? No surprise this "Shop" isn't open any longer either.
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