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Old 11-16-2015, 03:51 AM   #23881
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It provides the rest of the ingredients now or it gets the shaming again. How, exactly, and by what, I am not sure. But it will get the shaming.
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Old 11-16-2015, 12:46 PM   #23882
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It provides the rest of the ingredients now or it gets the shaming again. How, exactly, and by what, I am not sure. But it will get the shaming.
Lemme see if I can remember it all. I ought to write this **** down.

Pureed 1/2 of a large yellow onion and 4 large cloves of garlic in the little food processor. Sauteed them in a pan over medium heat w 2 tbs olive oil and 1 tbs butter just for a few minutes; enough to soften everything and get a little flavor-infusion happening with the oil, but not enough to caramelize the onion.

Added 6 oz tomato paste and 12 oz tomato sauce. 2 tsp basil & oregano, 1 tsp salt, a healthy shot of black pepper, a more restrained shot of red pepper flakes, about 1 tbs of brown sugar, and two bay leaves which I singed over the flame. Let it all simmer, covered, for about an hour while stirring occasionally.








The dough was made the day before. Very simple. Just 10oz (by weight) of tipo 00 flour (I use Antimo Caputo brand from the Italian grocery down the street), and about 6 oz of warm water. I proofed the yeast in the water along with about 1 tsp of brown sugar, and added 1 tsp of kosher salt and a touch more brown sugar to the flour before adding the water. Stirred by hand, adding a tad more warm water as needed. Let it rise for about an hour with the mixing bowl resting in a large pan of warm (~110°F) water, then refrigerated.





I'm still struggling a tad to get the crust to bake just right. In the photo above, the top is nicely browned, but the underside is still too soft. No matter how long I pre-heat the stone, no matter where I set the temp, no matter what rack I put the stone on, I can never get the underside to crisp up properly without killing the topside.

I'm toying with the idea of baking the pie on the stone for 5 minutes or so, then pulling out both the stone and the racks and just setting the pizza directly on the bottom of the oven. It's a gas oven, so the bottom is a (mostly) flat piece of sheet metal, and has the flame directly beneath it.
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Old 11-16-2015, 12:52 PM   #23883
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I actually did almost exactly that sauce for pasta the other night.
It was really acidic and I have no idea why.
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Old 11-16-2015, 01:14 PM   #23884
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I'm still struggling a tad to get the crust to bake just right. In the photo above, the top is nicely browned, but the underside is still too soft.

Try cooking just the crust for a few(4-7 maybe) minutes, then make the pizza and put it back in to finish, thats how ive always done it with homemade dough.
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Old 11-16-2015, 01:29 PM   #23885
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Try cooking just the crust for a few(4-7 maybe) minutes, then make the pizza and put it back in to finish, thats how ive always done it with homemade dough.
Hmm. Not a bad idea.

I will try that one. Plop the raw dough onto the stone, fire it for a few minutes, then pull the whole stone out, dress the pie, and back in.

My other thought, as I said, is to fire the whole pizza on the stone for a bit, then slide it off the stone onto either the pan I use to assemble it (thin sheet metal) and place that directly onto the bottom of the oven or, if I can manage it, slide the pie itself directly onto the bottom of the oven.

I believe that only the latter method will give me the brick-oven char that I'm looking for, but your way sounds a hell of a lot simpler / cleaner.
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Old 11-16-2015, 01:40 PM   #23886
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Hmm. Not a bad idea.

I will try that one. Plop the raw dough onto the stone, fire it for a few minutes, then pull the whole stone out, dress the pie, and back in.

My other thought, as I said, is to fire the whole pizza on the stone for a bit, then slide it off the stone onto either the pan I use to assemble it (thin sheet metal) and place that directly onto the bottom of the oven or, if I can manage it, slide the pie itself directly onto the bottom of the oven.

I believe that only the latter method will give me the brick-oven char that I'm looking for, but your way sounds a hell of a lot simpler / cleaner.
I put the stone on the grill to heat @ 600 deg then bake the dough @3-4 min then assemble it then back on the grill about 5-7 min.

Some times I'll put some wood chips to smoke it a bit.

I think the pre-bake does the best to cook the bottom.
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Old 11-16-2015, 01:50 PM   #23887
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Chunk charcoal, a weber kettle grill, a hair dryer, and a hose to blow air into the intake in the bottom. Forced induction cooking!

--Ian
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Old 11-16-2015, 01:52 PM   #23888
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grill
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grill
I'm doing this in a Manhattan kitchen which is smaller than some peoples' walk-in closets. I have no grill.


Of all the ideas I've come across, sean's is certainly the easiest and will get the dough cooked, but it ain't gonna give it a char.

I've come across a blog written by another NYC'er who suggests starting the pie out on a large iron skillet placed on a top burner at maximum hotness (to give the underside a nice char) and then finishing the topside by moving the whole skillet-and-pizza assembly into the broiler.

I lack a large cast-iron skillet, and don't really want to acquire yet more kitchen gadgets...

I wonder if I can easily remove the piece of sheet metal which forms the bottom of the oven, thus allowing me to put flame directly onto the underside of my prep-pan...
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Old 11-16-2015, 01:52 PM   #23889
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Yes, Joe. Darth Vader is a thinly veiled version of Dark Father.

Unrelated - Did you know Mørk is Danish and Finnish for dark? I haven't looked into the name Mindy yet but...
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Old 11-16-2015, 01:53 PM   #23890
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After 5 months of working at my new job, I finally asked how to turn the lights on above my desk. I thought they were on timers, and some days just didn't turn on. I know realized that someone in a cube near mine turns them on every day and some days he just doesn't come in.

I have all the power now.
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Old 11-16-2015, 01:54 PM   #23891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
I'm doing this in a Manhattan kitchen which is smaller than some peoples' walk-in closets. I have no grill.


Of all the ideas I've come across, sean's is certainly the easiest and will get the dough cooked, but it ain't gonna give it a char.

I've come across a blog written by another NYC'er who suggests starting the pie out on a large iron skillet placed on a top burner at maximum hotness (to give the underside a nice char) and then finishing the topside by moving the whole skillet-and-pizza assembly into the broiler.

I lack a large cast-iron skillet, and don't really want to acquire yet more kitchen gadgets...
In for joes kitchen giveaway.
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Old 11-16-2015, 01:57 PM   #23892
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Yes, Joe. Darth Vader is a thinly veiled version of Dark Father.
Dunkel-Vater?

Sounds like I need to make some beer.



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Unrelated - Did you know Mørk is Danish and Finnish for dark?
I did not.

Enter conspiracy theory about how Garry Marshall predicted Williams' struggle with depression.
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Old 11-16-2015, 02:09 PM   #23893
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I'm doing this in a Manhattan kitchen which is smaller than some peoples' walk-in closets. I have no grill.

...

I lack a large cast-iron skillet, and don't really want to acquire yet more kitchen gadgets...

I wonder if I can easily remove the piece of sheet metal which forms the bottom of the oven, thus allowing me to put flame directly onto the underside of my prep-pan...
Well, cast-iron cookware is cheap, at least.

The Good Eats episode "Flat is Beautiful V" involves making thin/crispy pizza at home. For the manhattan apartment, he suggests stretching dough over a cooling rack, attaching vise grips to it, and then holding it about 2 inches over the biggest gas burner flame you've got. I think the toppings go on afterwards.

I've never tried it (I like thicker crusts on my pizza), but you might want to hunt down the episode.

--Ian
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Old 11-16-2015, 03:27 PM   #23894
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Joe, a few notes from my kitchen:

1. start the onions before the garlic. When the onions are about 1 minute short of done, toss in the garlic. when the garlic smells heavenly, remove it all from heat. This will keep your garlic from overcooking (which is easy).

2. leave the stone in, but add a second rack and get some parchment paper. prebake your dough on parchment for a few minutes, then you can slide the pizza back in the oven without the parchment -- directly on a rack -- and crank the oven to 500+ degrees for another few minutes. Finally, top and bake for whatever melty-ness you like.

You could also try broiling the dough for the second bake but parchment will burn above 400 degrees. I've used it to higher, but it turns dark and crumbly fast.
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Old 11-16-2015, 03:48 PM   #23895
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codrus View Post
The Good Eats episode "Flat is Beautiful V" involves making thin/crispy pizza at home. For the manhattan apartment, he suggests stretching dough over a cooling rack, attaching vise grips to it, and then holding it about 2 inches over the biggest gas burner flame you've got. I think the toppings go on afterwards.
Hmm. I haven't watched the video yet, but this seems kind of backwards. I can't imagine how you'd char a crust before baking it...





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1. start the onions before the garlic. When the onions are about 1 minute short of done, toss in the garlic. when the garlic smells heavenly, remove it all from heat. This will keep your garlic from overcooking (which is easy).
I sauteed both of them very lightly.

When I do my honey-and-goat-cheese pie (no sauce), I caramelize the onions pretty thoroughly. Roughly 30 minutes on low heat, until they're nicely browned.

For this sauce, I'm just giving them a little warmth for a few minutes to soften them up and let the oil pick up some of their flavor. Neither the onions nor the garlic are in there long enough to brown. I'd kill the butter and the olive oil long before the garlic.



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2. leave the stone in, but add a second rack and get some parchment paper. prebake your dough on parchment for a few minutes, then you can slide the pizza back in the oven without the parchment -- directly on a rack -- and crank the oven to 500+ degrees for another few minutes. Finally, top and bake for whatever melty-ness you like.
Hmmm. Interesting.

I'm not sure I'd need the parchment- I can pretty easily get the dough off of the stone after only 4-5 minutes. No way I'd ever be able to transfer it to an oven rack, though. My crusts are *way* too thin for that. (This ain't DiGiorno). A pizza screen, on the other hand, would accomplish precisely that.


I still think that I'll get the best results if I can find a way to set the crust down directly onto the floor of the oven. Direct conductive heat transfer from that piece of metal is the only way I'm going to get anything even remotely resembling a coal-oven char on the bottom.


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Old 11-16-2015, 04:09 PM   #23896
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Hmm. I haven't watched the video yet, but this seems kind of backwards. I can't imagine how you'd char a crust before baking it...





I sauteed both of them very lightly.

When I do my honey-and-goat-cheese pie (no sauce), I caramelize the onions pretty thoroughly. Roughly 30 minutes on low heat, until they're nicely browned.

For this sauce, I'm just giving them a little warmth for a few minutes to soften them up and let the oil pick up some of their flavor. Neither the onions nor the garlic are in there long enough to brown. I'd kill the butter and the olive oil long before the garlic.



Hmmm. Interesting.

I'm not sure I'd need the parchment- I can pretty easily get the dough off of the stone after only 4-5 minutes. No way I'd ever be able to transfer it to an oven rack, though. My crusts are *way* too thin for that. (This ain't DiGiorno). A pizza screen, on the other hand, would accomplish precisely that.


I still think that I'll get the best results if I can find a way to set the crust down directly onto the floor of the oven. Direct conductive heat transfer from that piece of metal is the only way I'm going to get anything even remotely resembling a coal-oven char on the bottom.


Building a Pizza Oven in the back yard is something I'd like to do, but probably will never do. A neighbor back in NH did and the pizzas are awesome. Unfortunately, it takes quite a while to get the temp up. Like hours...
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Old 11-16-2015, 04:58 PM   #23897
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isn't a pizza stone intended to act as "the direct heat transfer" part of the oven? How hot did you bake?

btw use of the paper / rack option kind of requires a pizza peel. in a pinch you can use a cookie sheet OR use your pizza peel as a cutting board. you know, if you're in someone's closet.
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Old 11-16-2015, 05:27 PM   #23898
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I attempted DIY pizza and dough earlier this year. I could not keep the dough from shrinking back into a small shape. I'd roll that dough for 40 minutes and it'd be half it's size once I finish putting on the toppings.

I bought store made pizza dough and it was worse.
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Old 11-16-2015, 05:34 PM   #23899
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Building a Pizza Oven in the back yard is something I'd like to do, but probably will never do. A neighbor back in NH did and the pizzas are awesome. Unfortunately, it takes quite a while to get the temp up. Like hours...
It also requires a yard, which is an amenity to which I lack access. Somehow, I doubt that the city of NY would approve of my constructing a pizza oven on the sidewalk.





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isn't a pizza stone intended to act as "the direct heat transfer" part of the oven? How hot did you bake?
Yes, it is. Thus far, I've obtained the best results from placing the stone low in the oven, setting the temp to "BROIL" (eg: maximum), letting the stone come up to temp, then putting the pizza on it and reducing the temperature setting to prevent the top from being immolated.

It's still not ideal. The biggest single problem, and this is a sentiment echoed by pretty much everyone whose opinion I've read, is that the inside of a consumer-grade oven just can't achieve the sort of temperature commonly found in a coal oven (900-1,200°) or even a wood oven (700-950°), never mind that in both of those cases, the stone itself is being directly heated, whereas in a consumer application, the stone is indirectly heated.



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btw use of the paper / rack option kind of requires a pizza peel. in a pinch you can use a cookie sheet OR use your pizza peel as a cutting board. you know, if you're in someone's closet.
I have a 16" cookie sheet which works as an effective peel for transferring onto the stone. I typically have to coax the pizza a tad with a spatula.
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Old 11-16-2015, 06:38 PM   #23900
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Speaking of food and hopefully Joe will appreciate this.

How i'm cooking steak at this very moment:

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