My Quest of Running Flex Fuel on MS3+MS3x - Page 3 - Miata Turbo Forum -Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 12-21-2015, 03:34 PM   #42
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Yeah. I have all that.

I'm just going to hose clamp onto my NA rail for now. Eventually I will do bulkhead fittings at the tank and all that jazz.
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Old 12-21-2015, 03:37 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
Yeah. I have all that.

I'm just going to hose clamp onto my NA rail for now. Eventually I will do bulkhead fittings at the tank and all that jazz.
I lost the NA sender I bought :| I'm going to have to find another one now... meh.
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Old 12-21-2015, 03:38 PM   #44
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NA FPR? Or in tank.
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Old 12-21-2015, 03:39 PM   #45
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NA FPR? Or in tank.
NA FPR. I'm running the DW200 with the in-tank NB FPR right now, but E85 will need moar fuel.
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Old 12-21-2015, 03:39 PM   #46
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I'll sell you mine for cheapsies
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Old 04-11-2016, 10:10 AM   #47
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Aidan, how's this coming along? Did you get the car running on the flex sensor?

Assuming I'm understanding the MS3 software it looks like you can handle E85 with the old "add x fuel, add x timing" method that MS2 used, or you can set up 2 entirely different tunes and let it interpolate between the two. I assume the best way to handle it is to just zero out the fuel/timing add and create 2 tunes?

If you set it up with 2 maps, does analyze live or megalog viewer take the dual fuel maps into account when adjusting the tunes?
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Old 04-11-2016, 01:57 PM   #48
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I never did. It's all on my shelf. Ben did though.

The best way to do it is to run straight e85 and autotune that for table 3, and then blend with table one. Do the same with soark.

The blending is a science. Theoretically you can blend 1-1 but I've heard that people who know a lot mor e than me pull a bunch of timing and fuel as soon as the e85 percentage dtops, and then make it more linear. We really need that agrx7 guy, he was an OEM calibration engineer or something. I'll try and tag him later.
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Old 04-19-2016, 10:23 AM   #49
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Sorry, not much to add to this conversation save for that I'll be implementing this come early summer. Bookmarking this for reference later! Super stoked for easy power gains.
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Old 04-19-2016, 11:20 AM   #50
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To add some information after doing some looking around MSExtra. VEAL will not work with blend tables on. It may function, but it'll likely tune the VE1 no matter what. The best thing to do is add a tableswitch switch, and tune each individually. The steps would be:

-Note ethanol percentage for E0-10, run VEAL on VE1
-Fill with E85, note ethanol percentage, switch tableswitch to VE3, run VEAL on VE3 (go to VEAL tab, then the third tab will be VE3)
-Set base percentage to your E0-10 ethanol percentage (this tells MS that you didn't tune VE1 on E0, and to set the base of the blend curve at that %)
-Create blend curve with 100% being whatever your ~E85 % was

I've heard the opposite, Aidan. I've heard that E60-70ish behaves very similarly to E85 and doesn't need much timing pulled. Shown in this graph below:



I'll see if my Dad has any good info or documentation on this. He's been doing alternative energy engineering for 20+ years.

I'll hopefully get my flex fuel sensor in within the next few weeks so I can add first hand information.
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My Quest of Running Flex Fuel on MS3+MS3x-ron_vs_percent_ethanol_in_different_blendstocks.jpg  
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Old 04-19-2016, 11:44 AM   #51
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Awesome. Looking forward to some sources from a real enginear.
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Old 04-19-2016, 12:00 PM   #52
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I've heard the opposite, Aidan. I've heard that E60-70ish behaves very similarly to E85 and doesn't need much timing pulled.
I haven't gone through enough fuel to test my theory, but I ended up leaving my blend curve linear. If you are to have a steep drop off in the curve you're fuel map is going to run lean anytime you're just below the E85 threshold. Since E85 is typically not tuned to the knock threshold anyway and E10 is, I assume that any fuel blend above your base (E10) tune should be safer than the base blend.
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Old 04-19-2016, 12:02 PM   #53
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Linear fuel makes sense. The steep drop off would be in timing.
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Old 04-19-2016, 12:15 PM   #54
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If I remember right, when flex blend is enabled, there is only one curve? Because yes, I would think fuel would be linear for energy content, but spark would be different because of RON/ethanol curve.
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Old 04-19-2016, 12:22 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acedeuce802 View Post
If I remember right, when flex blend is enabled, there is only one curve? Because yes, I would think fuel would be linear for energy content, but spark would be different because of RON/ethanol curve.
In ms3 there are a lot of different curves. Spark, fuel, boost, even AFR targets I think. There are different ways of using them. I'll post some screenshots in a bit.
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Old 04-19-2016, 12:29 PM   #56
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Yeah, for some reason I remembered switching blend curve on, and all the individual blend curves become active (spk, fuel, afr, boost), but when changing a drop down to flex blend, it grays out all of those, and activates one blend curve. I'll have to play around with it more tonight. Reading through the manuals makes it seems like what I just said is not true at all.
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Old 04-19-2016, 12:42 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acedeuce802 View Post
Yeah, for some reason I remembered switching blend curve on, and all the individual blend curves become active (spk, fuel, afr, boost), but when changing a drop down to flex blend, it grays out all of those, and activates one blend curve. I'll have to play around with it more tonight. Reading through the manuals makes it seems like what I just said is not true at all.
I think you might be right. I can't get the spark/fuel to blend separately. Might post on msextra later today.
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Old 04-19-2016, 12:45 PM   #58
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Old 04-19-2016, 12:50 PM   #59
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I figured out how to do it. You turn on fuel table/spark table switching, and then use a blend curve to combine them.

The blend curve can be based off of ethanol percentage. This gives you the ability to do different blends for different parameters.

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My Quest of Running Flex Fuel on MS3+MS3x-bezagqc.png  
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Old 04-19-2016, 12:57 PM   #60
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Ahhh, that makes sense, thanks! I believe it's when you turn on "dual fuel" and select "flex" that it only allows one blend curve, I think 'blend curve 8'.
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