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Old 03-04-2013, 03:49 PM   #1
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Default Adventures in PTE/TTE

Post your pics, videos, build info, questions, lap times, smack talk..

I thought I'd start a thread just for NASA PTE/TTE/E3 Miatas. It's becoming a very popular w2w (PTE), enduro (E3) and TT(TTE) class.

This is from this weekend at ACS. We couldn't get the new motor into Super in time so we tried to detune Crusher at the last minute, unsuccessfully. We ended up with a very lumpy, spiky powerband that was down 10whp where it mattered. Correspondingly, I got my butt kicked by William (in "Nemo") at ACS where power matters. His dyno plot was the normal smooth, nearly flat NB2 arc from 5200-7200. Mine looked like the rocky mountains with a huge 115whp valley at 7200, ugh. William started on pole both days. I put Hoosiers on Sunday in hopes of keeping up (Nemo on Toyo RR) but it wasn't enough. These two cars are built very similar, dyno classed between 2350~2400#.

Next race will be back in Super, the silver NB.

Eric and Anthony (in his first race) also had an epic battle for 3rd and 4th both days. Sunday, Eric out qualified Anthony by .001 !



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Old 03-04-2013, 03:58 PM   #2
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Eric and Anthony (in his first race) also had an epic battle for 3rd and 4th both days. Sunday, Eric out qualified Anthony by .001 !
Correction:
Anthony out qualified Eric by 0.001 seconds.

-Anthony
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Old 03-04-2013, 04:58 PM   #3
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Anthony, are you going to post your videos here?
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Old 03-04-2013, 05:15 PM   #4
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:21 PM   #5
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Good thread idea. I just got my TTE dyno reclass back, and did the dyno runs over the weekend. In AZ we've got 2-3 Miata regulars in TTE, and a couple other cars, usually enough to hit the 5 cars for the free tires. Unfortunately all of the Miatas are chasing a pretty well-built Integra that seems to have about a second on us.

I'll post up some videos from the last event when I get a chance... so, who's going to be the first one to post some build info?
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:55 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate99 View Post
.. so, who's going to be the first one to post some build info?
Super is bone stock

2390/130 dyno classed

Big Grip Kit
Xida Club Sport 800/500
RB #54103 front bar
14mm rear bar
SuperMiata end links
ES bushings


alignment
15x9 6UL
205/50/15 SM6

SuperMiata end links
DIY "EP" style air dam
FM cross flow rad
Reroute
5 speed
SuperMiata race 7.25" single clutch, ceramic
Carbotech 10/8
SuperMiata 2 piece Sport Brake front rotors
1.8 rear brakes
SuperMiata brake lines
SuperMiata Prop Valve kit

Engine by Keegan Engineering
FM Wiseco 85mm 11.0:1 pistons
High velocity ports
Stage 1 integral street cams
Supertch light double valve springs
SuperMiata shim under bucket lifters
ST oversize SS valves
Carrillo A beam rods
ACL race bearings
Square top manifold
RB header
Skunk2 TB
M Tuned fuel rail
Toyota COPs
MS3pro ECU
Racing Beat midpipe and exhaust

Clearly that's hardware for more than 130whp. So I detune top end and add more low end torque to make up for the 18.38 lbs/hp I have to run at. That's compared to 16.5 lbs/hp for points classed PTE cars.

Nationally competitive PTE should be 3-4s faster than Spec Miata records. William and I both ran high 1:59's at ACS last weekend. I think the spec record is 2:03 there. We heard through the grapevine that a 1.6 SM was dynoed there over the weekend at a torqueless 131whp. Crikey.

What are this Integra's lap times compared to the SM records?
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:27 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Nationally competitive PTE should be 3-4s faster than Spec Miata records.
Holy ****.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:29 PM   #8
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I tired of seeing all these IQ3s too. Where are my wheels? lol
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:38 PM   #9
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Quote:
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Holy ****.
That's without a draft too

We're about the same weight, same tires but wider wheels, lots more torques and real suspension. I think the torque, or peak power in the case of a points classed motor, is worth just as much as the shocks.

Another thread here a while back, a few mid south and mid atlantic PTE/TTE guys stating they're also 3s under SM records. Similar lbs/hp but way more stuff we can optimizes elsewhere so it shouldn't be a surprise.
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:36 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
That's without a draft too

We're about the same weight, same tires but wider wheels, lots more torques and real suspension. I think the torque, or peak power in the case of a points classed motor, is worth just as much as the shocks.

Another thread here a while back, a few mid south and mid atlantic PTE/TTE guys stating they're also 3s under SM records. Similar lbs/hp but way more stuff we can optimizes elsewhere so it shouldn't be a surprise.
Now that my car is right I need to be more positive. Those times are going to put me shockingly close or in front of Eric Foss in PTC while I'm in PTD.
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Old 03-05-2013, 12:53 AM   #11
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Good thread. If I get off my *** and cage the car soon, I'll be moving from TTE to PTE this year. Car is nowhere close to optimized for E, but did well enough last year.

Last year's final setup:
1991 Chassis
Dyno reclass E* 131hp/2240lb
2001 block
99 head
DIYPNP
coolant reroute
stock 99 header with the interior welds smoothed
stock 1.6 exhaust
SM bilsteins
700/400
stock bars
13x7.5 Lensos and 185 R6
Cheap, used OPM clutch type LSD
Imitation 949 airdam
NASCAR COT wing

Changes for this year:
Cage
Open diff to get points back
Get someone that knows what they're doing to fix my halfassed tune and get me some more torks
RB header and borla SM exhaust
Probably switch to 15s and an E no star reclass for PT... 205 NT01 or R6
Probably lose the wing and go to a spoiler for certain tracks
Keep saving pennies for some XIDAs

Last edited by jpreston; 03-12-2013 at 11:31 PM.
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:57 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate99
Good thread idea. I just got my TTE dyno reclass back, and did the dyno runs over the weekend. In AZ we've got 2-3 Miata regulars in TTE, and a couple other cars, usually enough to hit the 5 cars for the free tires. Unfortunately all of the Miatas are chasing a pretty well-built Integra that seems to have about a second on us.
Ah yes, Simon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700
What are this Integra's lap times compared to the SM records?
well, for what its worth, the only time you could probably relate to is chuckwalla CCW. He holds the track record for NASAAZ TTE at a 2:04.444. It was the same day you ran with us back in dec '12 and you got the track record for TTC with a almost a 2:flat. the closest TTE miata time since then was a 2:06.x iirc.

NASA Time Trial


The only miatas thus far that can/have beat his times are miatas with ~145-150 hp but obviously are maxed out TTD/C cars...and are also a turbod 1.6 and a supercharged 1.8.


Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700
Super is bone stock

2390/130 dyno classed
interesting. thats within the 250 lbs of ballast rules for me of what im currently dyno classed at, and im very close to that hp number with my untuned 99 swap in my 90 with a 4.3 LSD. I may have to do some number crunching and see if i can fit in TTE my current classing from greg--for E at least--is 122/2220, but im just a little past that hp now.

What sucks is that the tracks here in AZ + a N/A miata would definitely benefit from 120-130 hp and a 4.7 diff as we have tracks ranging from .8 miles to 2.5+ miles tracks with lots of twisties and not much long WOT straights/turns like cali tracks--think canyon/mountain roads. Unless a miata here is F/I, N/A rarely gets to see 5th gear. So, IMO, all that torque/acceleration would probably own all. I have thought many times a setup like this would wipe [Simon/TTE integra] records, but would absolutely suck at a track like ACS.

i have a 4.7 R&P set sitting here too that ive debated whether to toss in for this situation.



edit*

hmm, just checked my classing sheet, and as my car sits, all i would have to do to make my car TTE eligible is take off the gv-rep lip, go back to stock sways and 1.6 brakes and id be there with 1 point left over, with 130hp and 2220, or 135 with 2225.

Last edited by JSpeed6; 03-05-2013 at 03:14 AM.
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Old 03-05-2013, 03:16 AM   #13
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Unfortunately all of the Miatas are chasing a pretty well-built Integra that seems to have about a second on us.
Challenge accepted. How often does NASA AZ get out to Chuckwalla?
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Old 03-05-2013, 04:19 AM   #14
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Next time well be out there is Nov 2-3rd. Looks to be CW this time
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Old 03-06-2013, 03:08 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
What are this Integra's lap times compared to the SM records?
There aren't any SMs in NASA AZ (haven't been for a year or two), so can't really compare to that, and I haven't found any SCCA lap records either (our SCCA region is a joke apart from auto-x, from what I hear). Like Jay said, the CVR times are probably the best comparison.

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Challenge accepted. How often does NASA AZ get out to Chuckwalla?
Do it!
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:30 AM   #16
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Next time well be out there is Nov 2-3rd. Looks to be CW this time
The score will have been settled in Utah by then.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:17 AM   #17
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edit:
Taken down at the request of closet homosexuals.

Last edited by hustler; 03-06-2013 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:28 PM   #18
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Oops, repost.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:59 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Super is bone stock
Just in case this scared anyone away, let me reassure you that it's easy to build a regionally competitive PTE car for way less than what E has into Super. I'm helping a customer of mine build a car like that right now.

Dyno classed somewhere in the 128-133whp range and 2300-2400lbs

Suspension:
XIDA Club Sport 800/500 5 points
RB 1.125" tubular race FSB 2 points
MSM 14mm RSB
SuperMiata endlinks
ES bushings
15x9 6UL
Stock calipers/rotors
SS lines
Hawk DTC-60 pads F/R
Trackspeed duct kit
Trackspeed prop valve kit

Drivetrain:
OEM 2001 longblock
99-00 fuel rail, 1.6 FPR, stock fuel pump (standard 1.6-VVT swap stuff)
Trackspeed AEM EMS-4 PnP system
EUDM Squaretop
Skunk2 64mm throttle body
SuperMiata harmonic damper
RB header
custom 2.25" exhaust
custom intake
BP26 head gasket (94-00)
M-Tuned reroute
Trackspeed 76mm Race Radiator
5-speed
SuperMiata 7.25" organic twin
4.30 Torsen 3 points

Racepak IQ3 data system (add'l sensors for oil pressure, oil temp, water pressure)
TC Design PTE-legal cage
Schroth belts
SPA Design 6-nozzle AFFF system


From there, you have 9pts to spend on brakes, suspension, tires and aero in the following combinations:

Rear bumper delete +1
Any brake upgrade (whether it's 1.8 brakes or TSE 11.75" fronts and Sport rears): +2
Bumpsteer correction (rack shims or LE/R tierod ends) +2
205/50 NT-01 +0
205/50 Toyo RR +2
205/50 Hoosier SM6 +3
225/45 NT-01 +6
225/45 Hoosier R6 +9
Rear decklid spoiler OR wing +4
Front EP-style bumper +3

Some of those combos are obviously faster than others, but I won't go and spoil the fun for those of you who want to figure it out on your own

Last edited by Savington; 03-07-2013 at 12:21 AM.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:52 AM   #20
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4.30 Torsen 3 points
Poverty diff.
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