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Race Prep Miata race-only chat. 949 Racing - Rim & tires

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Old 02-15-2015, 01:29 PM   #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flier129 View Post
I'm unfamiliar with Hankook's r-comps. Are those Z221s "soft" as soft as an A6/A7?
The Ventus TD is a semi-race tire in the vein of a Pilot Sport or A048 Yoko. 80 treadwear. AFAIK, the compounds used are the C51 and C71, same as their Z214 DOT slick. The TD "soft" is responsible for some crazy fast lap times on higher hp cars in Time Attack. I drove a set of 285/30/18 Ventus TD softs in Super Lap Battle last year on a 470whp, 2900lb Evo. Tough to keep them alive for an entire lap. Hankook has a C91 compound which is a hyper fast wearing one lap wonder. I'm starting to think the TD Softs are actually C91's. That's Hoosier R7 territory in what can ostensibly pass for a street tire.


So yeah a 195 TD soft is the TTE tire.

Edit: The softs are definitely C91. Just ordered a set to play with. Miata Challenge cheater tires..
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Old 02-15-2015, 01:34 PM   #282
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Yeah. I have a 99 daily driver right now and my racecar has all the parts you listed except for 15x8s and 195 TDs. I may have to swap some parts onto the daily for a few weeks this summer and head to mid-o for TT.
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Old 02-15-2015, 02:14 PM   #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post

So yeah a 195 TD soft is the TTE tire.
Does Hankook have a tire contingency for NASA TT?


I guess regardless of class, racing organization, etc, I would always want to run a tire that pays contingency.
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Old 02-15-2015, 06:49 PM   #284
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Yeah. I have a 99 daily driver right now and my racecar has all the parts you listed except for 15x8s and 195 TDs. I may have to swap some parts onto the daily for a few weeks this summer and head to mid-o for TT.
I'll trade you my 15x8s for your Giken. Oh wait...

Maybe we can collaborate on something. What springrate might a 195 TD prefer? I've got 800/500 on the car now, 700/400 on the shelf.
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Old 02-15-2015, 08:29 PM   #285
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So a literal one wonder lap? I don't want to have to buy tires every event :(
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Old 02-15-2015, 08:52 PM   #286
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Never mind had the wrong rules up.
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Old 02-15-2015, 09:02 PM   #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efini~FC3S View Post
Does Hankook have a tire contingency for NASA TT?

If a repeat of 2014, it will be for the National East and West events only (not any regional events)
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Old 02-16-2015, 08:20 PM   #288
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but at 80 treadwear, it should only be a 6pt tire under the 2015 PT rules. Thus, factoring in the -10 for size, you get 4 points back overall. Holy crap!

The question is...for PTE, can it stay fast for an entire race? Secondly, just how much slower is a 195 TD compared to a 205 R7. I may just have to test a set. Oh wait, my car is in pieces right now. Oops
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Old 02-16-2015, 08:22 PM   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedengineer View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but at 80 treadwear, it should only be a 6pt tire under the 2015 PT rules. Thus, factoring in the -10 for size, you get 4 points back overall. Holy crap!

The question is...for PTE, can it stay fast for an entire race? Secondly, just how much slower is a 195 TD compared to a 205 R7. I may just have to test a set. Oh wait, my car is in pieces right now. Oops
*never mind about the 6pt thing. I just noticed that it is listed specifically under the 7pt category. Still though!
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Old 02-16-2015, 08:48 PM   #290
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Is there any chance that a dyno car classed at 138whp/2390# would make it a full PTE race on these? Because man, that frees up a lot of points over a 205 R7.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
If that tire is actually available now that is a very big deal for PTE cars and especially TTE.

NB1 2400/151whp?
-10 195mm
7 Ventus TD
5 Xida
3 4.77 OSG
3 Down pipe/cat/exhaust
1 CAI
3 ECU
*

Thats a 1:37 car at Mid O.
This confuses me a bit, you have * and engine mods. Did you mean NB2 with non-dyno classing?
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Old 02-16-2015, 08:59 PM   #291
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The TD is available in hard, medium, soft. I think the softs would fall off even on a Miata in cool weather. The mediums would easily go a national distance but might be 1s slower. The C91 soft compound is nuts. Someones gotta test.
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Old 02-16-2015, 10:09 PM   #292
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I was also looking at these tires since they showed up on Discount Tire. I looked on this website (Hankook Archives - Garys Motorsport Tyres) and it seems to imply that this the 195/55/15 comes in a Medium (C5) and Soft (C7) compound, but does not directly compare it to the "Super Soft" C9 compound. Where are we getting the info that this Soft 195/55/15 Z221 is actually the "Super Soft" C9 compound in the Z214? Hankooks website also says this 195/55/15 Soft is a C7 compound Competition Cars Tires - Hankook Ventus Series | Hankook Tire Global.
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Old 02-18-2015, 07:44 PM   #293
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195/55/15 TD softs just showed. They are C70. My durometer shows about 74a for the TD and 56a for the 225/45/15 R1R's (SuperMiata wets) that also just arrived.

Tread that will actually touch the ground on a 15x8 is around 185mm. About the same as the 205 Rival and 205 RC-1. They're tall of course so 4.77 Kia gear mandatory I would think.
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Old 02-19-2015, 09:35 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
195/55/15 TD softs just showed. They are C70. My durometer shows about 74a for the TD and 56a for the 225/45/15 R1R's (SuperMiata wets) that also just arrived.

Tread that will actually touch the ground on a 15x8 is around 185mm. About the same as the 205 Rival and 205 RC-1. They're tall of course so 4.77 Kia gear mandatory I would think.
I guess Emilio and I can be the guinea pigs.

Im running them in F this year, provided I can get moved for my new job and get the car back into one piece. Ill also run them on 15x8s with the 4.77 Kia gearset.

The points I get back from that free up some interesting options on an F dyno reclass, but my guess is that they will be hard pressed to go a 40 minute race under a 2460lb car. If I drop 3hp, I can drop that back to 2400lb which might be the hot ticket.

Id be really interested in seeing what a points based 1.6 car in PTE could do on them. At the 2182 base weight, assuming you could wring a 1.6 for every bit of its worth on a +0 points motor build, I think you could best the dyno reclasses Ive seen, but it will take A LOT of work to get there.
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Old 02-20-2015, 12:15 AM   #295
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Are you running PTF in March @ VIR? I'm really curious to see how these work out for you.
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Old 02-20-2015, 08:16 AM   #296
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Are you running PTF in March @ VIR? I'm really curious to see how these work out for you.
Unlikely at this point. Might be able to make May. I'm in the middle of selling one house, buying another, relocating and starting a new job, so racecar is pretty far down the priority list currently. :(
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Old 02-20-2015, 06:28 PM   #297
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Default race, wet race, practice, street tires

I am trying to get an idea of what tires I need for a TTE car that I will drive occasionally on the street. I was thinking that I need:

RACE: 1-2 sets Hankook 195 TD or Hoosier 205 SM7
PRACTICE: the older race set or Yoko A048?
STREET: the Yoko's or the tires I use for the wet?
RACE WET: (lowest priority) narrow tires to use on the street also? 14" on the stock daisy wheels?

So I am trying to get by with the least number of tires and least cost. I don't think that wet TT days are important enough to go with Hoosier wets.

Any suggestions on 3 or maybe 4 sets of tires to do all of the above?

(Searched for variations of practice, race, wet, tire)

Last edited by HoustonNW; 02-20-2015 at 06:30 PM. Reason: added 14" wheel option
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Old 02-20-2015, 06:49 PM   #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonNW View Post
I am trying to get an idea of what tires I need for a TTE car that I will drive occasionally on the street. I was thinking that I need:

RACE: 1-2 sets Hankook 195 TD or Hoosier 205 SM7
PRACTICE: the older race set or Yoko A048?
STREET: the Yoko's or the tires I use for the wet?
RACE WET: (lowest priority) narrow tires to use on the street also? 14" on the stock daisy wheels?

So I am trying to get by with the least number of tires and least cost. I don't think that wet TT days are important enough to go with Hoosier wets.

Any suggestions on 3 or maybe 4 sets of tires to do all of the above?

(Searched for variations of practice, race, wet, tire)
8x 205 SM7 (195 TD is unproven)
4x 205 Star Spec practice/wets/street
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Old 02-20-2015, 09:49 PM   #299
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8x 205 SM7 (195 TD is unproven)
4x 205 Star Spec practice/wets/street
KISS, me being the stupid, I like it, thanks!
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Old 02-20-2015, 11:32 PM   #300
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Mounting the 195/55 TD softs up to evaluate tomorrow at ACS. DOT codes are 2212 and 3612 :( That's almost 3 years old for those of you that don't speak DOT. That explains the durometer reading. I don't expect these to perform as they should, given their age.

I sent an email to my contact at Hankook to see if all the US stock is this old or if there are some fresher ones I can purchase to evaluate.

Seeing as these have not been listed on US website for more than about a year, I'm guessing these were actually slow selling inventory originally shipped to another country and drug over here just recently.
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