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Race Prep Miata race-only chat. 949 Racing - Rim & tires

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Old 06-24-2015, 01:07 PM   #361
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I was wrong, I'd have two points left over, not three. ****.

No, no flat powerband for me unfortunately. Just a pleb making 140 at peak and 110 at 5k. This is east side regional competition, nothing too hardcore.
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Old 06-24-2015, 01:27 PM   #362
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I was wrong, I'd have two points left over, not three. ****.

No, no flat powerband for me unfortunately. Just a pleb making 140 at peak and 110 at 5k. This is east side regional competition, nothing too hardcore.
If it is an NA, bump steer. Might not seem important but it increase mean average grip on long bumpy turns. You have to look at A/B data to see it. or know your exit speeds everywhere.
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Old 06-24-2015, 01:46 PM   #363
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If it is an NA, bump steer. Might not seem important but it increase mean average grip on long bumpy turns. You have to look at A/B data to see it. or know your exit speeds everywhere.
It's an NA, and oh yes, it suffers from typical NA bump steer woes. This is for Lime Rock, track and curbing are decently smooth. If WGI was going to be open again this season, I'd address that.

I fucked up my points transferring from D to E. Same setup puts me 22 points with TTE* vs 19 for TTD*, assuming my base tire is in fact 235 for TTE* (still waiting on word from Greg).

I need to shave one point to be TTE legal. Right now the set up is:

*- 7 points
205 R7s (two heat cycles, fresh)- 3 points
4.1 Torsen (no Giken budget)- 3 points
Dampers- 3 points
Springs- 2 points
Roll bars- 2 points
949 11.75" front brakes and m-tuned 11" rear brakes- 2 points

=22 points

My springs are 12/7kg/mm, should probably be stiffer. I have a 4.3 open diff sitting in a carrier in my garage. I'm thinking of swapping that in and keeping my sway points and brake points. I know my stock brakes would be fine, but I'm short on prep time and it seems easier to swap carriers than do all that other stuff, plus sways are kind of important with my spring set up.

Last edited by dasting; 06-24-2015 at 02:04 PM.
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Old 06-24-2015, 02:13 PM   #364
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It's an NA, and oh yes, it suffers from typical NA bump steer woes. This is for Lime Rock, track and curbing are decently smooth. If WGI was going to be open again this season, I'd address that.

I fucked up my points transferring from D to E. Same setup puts me 22 points with TTE* vs 19 for TTD*, assuming my base tire is in fact 235 for TTE* (still waiting on word from Greg).

I need to shave one point to be TTE legal. Right now the set up is:

*- 7 points
205 R7s (two heat cycles, fresh)- 3 points
4.1 Torsen (no Giken budget)- 3 points
Dampers- 3 points
Springs- 2 points
Roll bars- 2 points
949 11.75" front brakes and m-tuned 11" rear brakes- 2 points

=22 points

My springs are 12/7kg/mm, should probably be stiffer. I have a 4.3 open diff sitting in a carrier in my garage. I'm thinking of swapping that in and keeping my sway points and brake points. I know my stock brakes would be fine, but I'm short on prep time and it seems easier to swap carriers than do all that other stuff, plus sways are kind of important with my spring set up.
brakes or sway bars. I think a few/many PTE cars run stiffer springs and use the oem sway bars.
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Old 06-24-2015, 02:15 PM   #365
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If you have points for sway bars, it makes for a car that's more versatile, easier to drive and setup. But a stock sway bar setup can be fast too. Lots of front spring (900-1100) and about the same rear. Our fastest ever PTE car (2013 rules) ran stock NB bars and 1000/400#.
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Old 06-24-2015, 02:23 PM   #366
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^I agree with both of you, stiffer springs and stock brakes are the better option, but different springs aren't an option for next weekend. I won't have time to get them or install them.

I'm asking what will be faster on a 60 second, relatively smooth track (Lime Rock Park) using R7s:
Option #1- stock sways with current springs (670/390) plus 4.1 Torsen diff
Option #2- 1.125" Race front sway with current springs plus 4.3 open

I need to either ditch my brakes and my sway bars or just my LSD.
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Old 06-24-2015, 02:40 PM   #367
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^I agree with both of you, stiffer springs and stock brakes are the better option, but different springs aren't an option for next weekend. I won't have time to get them or install them.

I'm asking what will be faster on a 60 second, relatively smooth track (Lime Rock Park) using R7s:
Option #1- stock sways with current springs (670/390) plus 4.1 Torsen diff
Option #2- 1.125" Race front sway with current springs plus 4.3 open

I need to either ditch my brakes and my sway bars or just my LSD.
2

Gearing wins. Better yet, Kia Sportage 4.77 # 0K014-27-110
Don't underestimate the value of gearing, particularly if you don't have a Kansas relief map powerband.
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Old 06-24-2015, 02:54 PM   #368
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If you don't already have a Torsen, then an OS Giken. If you do already have a Torsen but don't have an engine that makes within 5whp of peak power over a 3000rpm powerband, then a 6 speed.

Interesting. So assuming the engine doesn't make within 5whp of peak over 3000 rpms, you're saying:

OS Giken > 6 SPD > Torsen Correct?
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Old 06-24-2015, 03:04 PM   #369
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Interesting. So assuming the engine doesn't make within 5whp of peak over 3000 rpms, you're saying:

OS Giken > 6 SPD > Torsen Correct?
Lower gearing keeps the engine closer to peak power for more of the track.

Diff is a different question. I won 2012 NASA nationals at Mid Ohio with an MSM Torsen (classed as an MSM). It sucked. In my video you can hear lots of wheel spin. Tuned OSG would have been worth probably .5s there. Some tracks it can be .7s.

Ideally you have both a tuned OSG (not default OSG tuning) and either 4.77 or 4.875. On some tracks, such a diff is worth well over 1s.
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Old 06-24-2015, 03:12 PM   #370
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I just never considered the trade-off of open diff with 6-spd vs torsen with 5-spd... Thought that's what you were suggesting.

EDIT: assuming shortened rear end ratio in either case.

Last edited by ericwh; 06-24-2015 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 06-24-2015, 03:21 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
2

Gearing wins. Better yet, Kia Sportage 4.77 # 0K014-27-110
Don't underestimate the value of gearing, particularly if you don't have a Kansas relief map powerband.
Sounds good to me. 4.3 open it is. Doubt I can get my hands on the kia gears in time.
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Old 06-25-2015, 05:25 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by Greg
Good catch. Nope--typo---correction sent.
Oh well- open diff it is.
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Old 06-26-2015, 07:26 AM   #373
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a


Edit: Sorry, my one year old posted this.
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Old 06-27-2015, 10:50 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
How to win in PTE:


4a. Dyno class cars, request PTE* base classing and use the +7 to add power and hope that nobody in your region was smart enough to start with an NB1 in the first place
5. Read the zero-point mods section, and do them all. Then read it again and do some more of them

You are doing it wrong if:
-you take points for aero
-your car weighs less than 2400lbs (2500lbs? 2600lbs?)
-you can points-class your car and you are dyno-classed

tte/pte base is 130whp/2400lbs
Ok so no aero, bulk up, not sure what is meant by the points reclass/dyno reclass.

Finally anyone know where I can peak through the freebee points section?
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Old 06-27-2015, 11:36 PM   #375
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Finally anyone know where I can peak through the freebee points section?

Holy **** dude, have you even read the rules?
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Old 06-28-2015, 12:52 AM   #376
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Originally Posted by blkmkiii View Post
tte/pte base is 130whp/2400lbs
Ok so no aero, bulk up, not sure what is meant by the points reclass/dyno reclass.

Finally anyone know where I can peak through the freebee points section?
Umm... the rule book? lol

If you read it, should answer all your questions. If not, read it again.
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Old 06-28-2015, 10:54 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by FatKao View Post
Holy **** dude, have you even read the rules?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arca_ex View Post
Umm... the rule book? lol

If you read it, should answer all your questions. If not, read it again.
You guys are the best, thank you so much for your assistance!!! Have a wonderful afternoon.
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Old 06-28-2015, 03:06 PM   #378
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You guys are the best, thank you so much for your assistance!!! Have a wonderful afternoon.
Seriously?

What do you want us to do, go to the rulebook for you and copy/paste the entire free points section?

It's right here:
https://nasaproracing.com/rules
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Old 07-07-2015, 03:22 AM   #379
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Oh well- open diff it is.
Just to clarify this, Greg's typo was in allowing you to use sport brakes without taking points?
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Old 07-07-2015, 03:25 AM   #380
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Think its the 245 base size is the typo.
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