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Old 06-13-2013, 05:16 PM   #301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krazykarl View Post
You'll probably get more benefit with more than stock power, since you'll need more power to get past the added drag from a wing, and the aero stuff make more of a difference the faster you're going.
Blackbird, 949, and Lightyear all run stock power with lots of aero if I'm not mistaken.
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Old 06-13-2013, 05:32 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by mx5autoxer View Post
On another note, I haven't actually gotten to mess around with aero much on track. I really enjoy the aero aspect of going faster and I want to play with just aero for a while. I was thinking of going back to completely stock (or maybe getting another, stock Miata) and using aero only to start dropping lap times. My question is, will stock tires and suspension components interfere with aero testing or make tweaks more apparent?
I'm running stock power but have good suspension (FCM DA) and NT-01s.
If you're looking to seriously play with aero you're going to run out of suspension very quickly, and modded suspension without race tires has it's limits.

My advice would be to sort out the mechanical grip on a stock powered car and than add aero.
You'll need to keep playing with the suspension the more aero grip you get.
Quote:
Originally Posted by krazykarl View Post
You'll probably get more benefit with more than stock power, since you'll need more power to get past the added drag from a wing, and the aero stuff make more of a difference the faster you're going.
While it's obvious that aero does more as speed increases, the notion in this post is the age long myth.
You don't need more power to overcome the drag, a properly designed aero package pays big dividends in cornering speeds and will lower lap times even with stock power.

Moti
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Old 06-13-2013, 05:34 PM   #303
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I've always wondered why I don't see a tail like this.
Aerocivic - Honda Civic modifications for maximum gas mileage - aerocivic.com

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Old 06-13-2013, 06:08 PM   #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
While it's obvious that aero does more as speed increases, the notion in this post is the age long myth.
You don't need more power to overcome the drag, a properly designed aero package pays big dividends in cornering speeds and will lower lap times even with stock power.

Moti
Maybe my post was overly brief. I was specifically addressing mx5autoxer's post about tweaking aero only to see what changes do what. In that setting, more power will amplify any changes so that they will be more readily noticeable. Also, the magnitude of the change in lap time due to aero changes will be more likely to overshadow any driver inconsistencies.

Aero obviously helps no matter how fast you're going, otherwise those solar powered cars that only go 10 mph would just be silly looking for no reason at all.
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Old 06-13-2013, 06:26 PM   #305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
I'd rather have my DRS on a button for the straight.
The only good, simple way to do this is to set up the car for the right amount downforce around the track and then have a button or other easy driver controlled input to drop the AOA for minimal drag in a straight line. On most tracks, there are at least 3 or 4 places you are accelerating for at least a few seconds without the need for extra downforce or complicated steering inputs. A radio button on the wheel would be the way to go.
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Old 06-13-2013, 07:44 PM   #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dot3 View Post
I've always wondered why I don't see a tail like this.
Aerocivic - Honda Civic modifications for maximum gas mileage - aerocivic.com
This is where its at.

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Old 06-13-2013, 07:45 PM   #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_hyde View Post
The only good, simple way to do this is to set up the car for the right amount downforce around the track and then have a button or other easy driver controlled input to drop the AOA for minimal drag in a straight line. On most tracks, there are at least 3 or 4 places you are accelerating for at least a few seconds without the need for extra downforce or complicated steering inputs. A radio button on the wheel would be the way to go.
Why even involve electronics? Super modifieds have been doing this for decades with just a linkage
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Old 06-13-2013, 08:07 PM   #308
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Air friction coefficient... .07

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Old 06-13-2013, 10:07 PM   #309
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One thing no one is mentioning, is how good of a driver you would have to be to handle active aero. Driving a regular high downforce car is hard enough, with varying amounts of grip at varying speeds... let along when the amount of downforce is constantly changing.

Like rharris said, I bet we would all be faster with just plain static wings.
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:20 PM   #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Handy Man View Post
One thing no one is mentioning, is how good of a driver you would have to be to handle active aero. Driving a regular high downforce car is hard enough, with varying amounts of grip at varying speeds... let along when the amount of downforce is constantly changing.

Like rharris said, I bet we would all be faster with just plain static wings.
Assuming you're doing it your self that would be harder, if its all automatic i dont see the problem.
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:22 PM   #311
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Originally Posted by triple88a View Post
Assuming you're doing it your self that would be harder, if its all automatic i dont see the problem.
It seems to make gods out of men in the few supercars with it.
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:07 PM   #312
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And the Kings of Aerodynamics

I always wanted the Red Bull X1 since the first time I saw it

Go Red Bull Racing (Vettel and Webber)

Thank you Adrian Newey for this piece of art

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Old 06-14-2013, 12:55 AM   #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Handy Man View Post
I bet we would all be faster with just plain static wings.
I'd have to disagree with that.
If you made the most primitive DRS, dropping the wing angle only in straights where no downforce is needed, there is no reason why you wouldn't shave some lap time.

Moti
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Old 06-14-2013, 01:28 AM   #314
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If you want a little better detail about the most aerodynamic car, this is a cool app I just down loaded

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Old 06-14-2013, 09:58 AM   #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
It seems to make gods out of men in the few supercars with it.
Except for some people. LOL

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Originally Posted by JSpeed6 View Post
that didn't help the Veyron that bounced off the tire wall in phoenix a few weeks ago haha

I was working that event. while I don't advise ANY cornerworker taking their eyes off a cornerstation while working, there were only 3 cars on track so I managed to snap a few pictures.



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Old 06-14-2013, 10:23 AM   #316
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After incident. Notice what type of active aero Veyrons use.

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Couldn't resist


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Old 06-14-2013, 04:08 PM   #317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
I'd have to disagree with that.
If you made the most primitive DRS, dropping the wing angle only in straights where no downforce is needed, there is no reason why you wouldn't shave some lap time.

Moti
Good point. I should revise my post to specify active aero under braking or cornering.
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Old 06-15-2013, 03:53 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by Handy Man View Post
Good point. I should revise my post to specify active aero under braking or cornering.
If you make that revision then I would definitely agree. I think that active aero used during cornering is definitely something that should be up to professional drivers and controlled by computers.
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Old 06-16-2013, 12:44 PM   #319
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One thing I have been thinking of since the Red Bull X2010 came out, why doesn't the front wings move?

I was reading about how the front tires on a F1 car will go from 100% grip in a straight line to 20% when taking a corner (of course it would be the inside tire of the corner).

So why not run the front wing on each side be controlled by the steering rack. The front wing on the X2010 or Miata would only need to move a few degs (maybe 3-5).
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Old 06-16-2013, 02:00 PM   #320
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That's what the W duct is for.
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