Help me build my car
03-29-2012, 03:28 AM
#44
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: chicago
Posts: 693
Total Cats: -33
focus on the suspension, as others said, and use spec miata as a base line. I would not worry about fancy brake pads. when the suspension is set up these cars will carry alot of speed in the corners and really good brakes will just end up slowing you down more then you need. a little bit of oh ---- going to fast for the corner will pay off once you get used to it assuming the suspension is right and you have decent tires. you'll never drive a fast car fast till you can drive a slow car fast. I'm not sure I would worry about the bushings right away, the install is a major pain. then again you may not want to work at setting everything up only to take it apart again for bushings. also bracing is important, less so if you install a cage.
Reply
0
0
03-30-2012, 02:32 PM
#45
focus on the suspension, as others said, and use spec miata as a base line. I would not worry about fancy brake pads. when the suspension is set up these cars will carry alot of speed in the corners and really good brakes will just end up slowing you down more then you need. a little bit of oh ---- going to fast for the corner will pay off once you get used to it assuming the suspension is right and you have decent tires. you'll never drive a fast car fast till you can drive a slow car fast. I'm not sure I would worry about the bushings right away, the install is a major pain. then again you may not want to work at setting everything up only to take it apart again for bushings. also bracing is important, less so if you install a cage.
I think a good set of brakes (ie brake pads) is the best starting point mod (other than a rollbar) for track use/learning.
From my questioning of instructors and racers at events, it seems the last and hardest thing to learn is "when to get off the brakes", so why not run an aggressive pad and start early?
If you are referring to a BBK, then just take my comment as random by-stander advice lol.
Reply
0
0
03-31-2012, 12:05 AM
#46
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 105
Total Cats: 1
I am not sure I agree with this...my first track event I went out there with street summer tires and xp8s.
I think a good set of brakes (ie brake pads) is the best starting point mod (other than a rollbar) for track use/learning.
From my questioning of instructors and racers at events, it seems the last and hardest thing to learn is "when to get off the brakes", so why not run an aggressive pad and start early?
If you are referring to a BBK, then just take my comment as random by-stander advice lol.
I think a good set of brakes (ie brake pads) is the best starting point mod (other than a rollbar) for track use/learning.
From my questioning of instructors and racers at events, it seems the last and hardest thing to learn is "when to get off the brakes", so why not run an aggressive pad and start early?
If you are referring to a BBK, then just take my comment as random by-stander advice lol.
I plan to do dtc-60's in the front, havent decided on rear pads yet. Also, I decided im going to skip the reroute for now and switch that up with a koyo rad.
2 things.
1. I plan to go turbo next season. Temps here in the summer max out at about 95 (not that common, usually 80-85), but like 97% humidity. Is the 37 koyo going to be enough for me with a moderate (<220whp) turbo setup and other supporting cooling mods, or should I just go with the 55 now? Is there such thing as too much cooling?
2. I cant decide if 700/400 rates on the clubsports will be right for me. This will be a track dedicated car with very occasional street use. 225 tires (no plans to go 275 in the future). The roughest track I go to is nelson ledges.
Reply
0
0
03-31-2012, 11:53 PM
#47
The harder the track is on brakes, the more important it is to go there prepared. I know CMP down here is down right nasty on brakes, most racers/instructors I talk to say its the hardest track on brakes that around the east coast (not sure about tracks north of summit point).
Plus, this is one place you can't really over do! Well you can try to run xp10s on street 205s which makes modulation difficult, but its not nearly as bad as running inadequate pad material.
1) Generally, my understanding from reading other posts is that a 37mm koyo is good up to about 180whp. I can't remember exactly, but I think ryan (ThePass) had 200whp on a 37mm koyo without the reroute and he would have overheating issues and had to turn it down to 170-180whp. There is such a thing as too much cooling in that you want the engine to run in its expected temperature range (somewhere between 180 to 220).
2) I would definitely run 700/400 at minimum for the Xidas. Not sure how rough your track is, but that is a VERY good suspension for 225mm and wider tires.
Plus, this is one place you can't really over do! Well you can try to run xp10s on street 205s which makes modulation difficult, but its not nearly as bad as running inadequate pad material.
1) Generally, my understanding from reading other posts is that a 37mm koyo is good up to about 180whp. I can't remember exactly, but I think ryan (ThePass) had 200whp on a 37mm koyo without the reroute and he would have overheating issues and had to turn it down to 170-180whp. There is such a thing as too much cooling in that you want the engine to run in its expected temperature range (somewhere between 180 to 220).
2) I would definitely run 700/400 at minimum for the Xidas. Not sure how rough your track is, but that is a VERY good suspension for 225mm and wider tires.
Reply
0
0
04-01-2012, 11:27 AM
#48
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 105
Total Cats: 1
The harder the track is on brakes, the more important it is to go there prepared. I know CMP down here is down right nasty on brakes, most racers/instructors I talk to say its the hardest track on brakes that around the east coast (not sure about tracks north of summit point).
Plus, this is one place you can't really over do! Well you can try to run xp10s on street 205s which makes modulation difficult, but its not nearly as bad as running inadequate pad material.
1) Generally, my understanding from reading other posts is that a 37mm koyo is good up to about 180whp. I can't remember exactly, but I think ryan (ThePass) had 200whp on a 37mm koyo without the reroute and he would have overheating issues and had to turn it down to 170-180whp. There is such a thing as too much cooling in that you want the engine to run in its expected temperature range (somewhere between 180 to 220).
2) I would definitely run 700/400 at minimum for the Xidas. Not sure how rough your track is, but that is a VERY good suspension for 225mm and wider tires.
Plus, this is one place you can't really over do! Well you can try to run xp10s on street 205s which makes modulation difficult, but its not nearly as bad as running inadequate pad material.
1) Generally, my understanding from reading other posts is that a 37mm koyo is good up to about 180whp. I can't remember exactly, but I think ryan (ThePass) had 200whp on a 37mm koyo without the reroute and he would have overheating issues and had to turn it down to 170-180whp. There is such a thing as too much cooling in that you want the engine to run in its expected temperature range (somewhere between 180 to 220).
2) I would definitely run 700/400 at minimum for the Xidas. Not sure how rough your track is, but that is a VERY good suspension for 225mm and wider tires.
I think ill stick with the 700/400. I did some research and came to the same conclusion that 700/400 is probably perfect for my application.
Reply
1
1
04-06-2012, 08:34 AM
#49
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 20,664
Total Cats: 3,013
I have the 55mm radiator with a/c still in the car and temps started to creep on me in one session this last weekend. No problems in the other sessions. Ambient was 88F. IDK what hp I'm running but it is a 2870 at ~8-9psi. The bumper mouth and rad are sealed off well but I need to block the mouth less with the intercooler to allow better flow to the rad. I also need a chin spoiler to increase the pressure differential to help flow. And I will add an oil cooler with thermostat before summer.
Reply
0
0
04-06-2012, 01:44 PM
#50
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 105
Total Cats: 1
I have the 55mm radiator with a/c still in the car and temps started to creep on me in one session this last weekend. No problems in the other sessions. Ambient was 88F. IDK what hp I'm running but it is a 2870 at ~8-9psi. The bumper mouth and rad are sealed off well but I need to block the mouth less with the intercooler to allow better flow to the rad. I also need a chin spoiler to increase the pressure differential to help flow. And I will add an oil cooler with thermostat before summer.
Reply
0
0
04-23-2012, 02:07 PM
#51
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 105
Total Cats: 1
Well, I might as well turn this into my build thread rather than starting something new. After my initial post, I have done a LOT of reading and realize how retarded I was to think that turbo setup was even worth looking at. I have since gone full circle.
I got myself a hardtop for 700 bucks. I then ordered a miatacage and started prepping.
Blew out the floor mounts, which is turning out to sound like a bad idea. I purchased a sparco evo 2 plus, but now that I have it mounted, I am selling it for an ultrashield due to 1/8" clearance between my head and the hardtop.
A mess!
Got myself some TRM 15x9's and nt-01's. I plan to pick up some 6uls eventually but I wanted to be sure I had enough money right now to get the car done for spring.
Anyone who does their own tire mounting NEEDS to get this stuff-- its almost like wax, but it makes tires go on like butter.
Notched the tunnel in prep for the no longer being used sparco seat. Isnt completely welded yet.
Main hoop and rear bars fitted.
Done
I elected to keep the doorbars out for now. Think the cage is going to be white and the floor grey. I was going to do it crazy colors but green will make the car look like barney and yellow like the lakers.
Control arms painted with ES poly bushings ready to go in.
Zerks!
Parts either here or on order-
ultrashield rallysport
xida-CS 700/400
ARP lugs
Forged open ended lug nuts
Energy Suspension Poly bushing set (as well as zerks)
R-package tie rod ends
clutch master cyl w/ ss line
SS brake lines
RBF 600
Aluminum valve stems
RB front swaybar
Koyo 55 rad
R-edition tierod ends
g-force harness
I got myself a hardtop for 700 bucks. I then ordered a miatacage and started prepping.
Blew out the floor mounts, which is turning out to sound like a bad idea. I purchased a sparco evo 2 plus, but now that I have it mounted, I am selling it for an ultrashield due to 1/8" clearance between my head and the hardtop.
A mess!
Got myself some TRM 15x9's and nt-01's. I plan to pick up some 6uls eventually but I wanted to be sure I had enough money right now to get the car done for spring.
Anyone who does their own tire mounting NEEDS to get this stuff-- its almost like wax, but it makes tires go on like butter.
Notched the tunnel in prep for the no longer being used sparco seat. Isnt completely welded yet.
Main hoop and rear bars fitted.
Done
I elected to keep the doorbars out for now. Think the cage is going to be white and the floor grey. I was going to do it crazy colors but green will make the car look like barney and yellow like the lakers. Control arms painted with ES poly bushings ready to go in.
Zerks!
Parts either here or on order-
ultrashield rallysport
xida-CS 700/400
ARP lugs
Forged open ended lug nuts
Energy Suspension Poly bushing set (as well as zerks)
R-package tie rod ends
clutch master cyl w/ ss line
SS brake lines
RBF 600
Aluminum valve stems
RB front swaybar
Koyo 55 rad
R-edition tierod ends
g-force harness
Last edited by stuiephoto; 04-23-2012 at 02:31 PM.
Reply
0
0
04-24-2012, 06:56 PM
#53
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: chicago
Posts: 693
Total Cats: -33
I am not sure I agree with this...my first track event I went out there with street summer tires and xp8s.
I think a good set of brakes (ie brake pads) is the best starting point mod (other than a rollbar) for track use/learning.
From my questioning of instructors and racers at events, it seems the last and hardest thing to learn is "when to get off the brakes", so why not run an aggressive pad and start early?
If you are referring to a BBK, then just take my comment as random by-stander advice lol.
I think a good set of brakes (ie brake pads) is the best starting point mod (other than a rollbar) for track use/learning.
From my questioning of instructors and racers at events, it seems the last and hardest thing to learn is "when to get off the brakes", so why not run an aggressive pad and start early?
If you are referring to a BBK, then just take my comment as random by-stander advice lol.
Last edited by psreynol; 04-24-2012 at 07:07 PM.
Reply
0
0
04-24-2012, 08:23 PM
#54
that seems logical and it makes sense however I must disagree. sometimes it is best to learn how to drive around some issues imo it will make you faster in the long run. shitty brakes will make you carry more speed. many people have a hard time forcing themselves to carry speed in the corner when their brain is telling oh ---- too fast. not only that but racing brakes need to be very hot to work right. if you don't get them hot enough they will destroy your rotors very quickly. so nothing wrong with racing pads and BBK but when you are first learning I would hold off on the real race pads but that is just my opinion. an aggressive street pad or a mild track pad is fine if you need to upgrade anyway. I would not start with XP8
Either way, we can agree to disagree on this! a beginner is probably not too worried about his V min or anything.
Reply
0
0
04-25-2012, 01:02 PM
#55
Have you ever faded brake pads or fluid? Especially at the end of a really fast straight? My very first track day I was dumb enough to take my brother's FFR 65 Roadster with nice 13" monster brakes. Well my unexperienced *** didn't know that 2 year old brake fluid isnt too good at track no matter how nice the caliper, pads, rotors are and boiled fluid coming into turn 1 at CMP. There are few things that will make you pucker like the brake pedal going to the floor when you are doing 100mph+. For that reason I will never recommend anyone "drive around" weaknesses in a braking system. Sure tires, suspension and power can all be worked around, but brakes come down to a safety issue.
I also had pad fade on my first miata track day due to the proper pads not being delivered in time. It sucked having to slow down every third lap just to be able to slow down when turining into the indfield ar Rockingham. One session I did 3 ***** to the wall laps to see what I could get up to on the three NASCAR turns and it scared me to death when I hit the brakes and no matter how much pressure I applied it was only gonna slow down sooo fast, luckily the oval continues past the point that it turns into the infield so I only pushed a few cones.
Moral of the story, if you are going to do it right, make sure you have more brakes (and brake confidence) than you will ever need, and then learn to drive the car without using them especially NA. I think it was Hustler that had a few brake failure stories, ask for his opinion on brakes.
OP, you seem to be doing things right. Good decision on XIDA's. I wish I did. I did the SD route and love my shocks, I have never had this much confidence in the car, but if anything ever happened to my shocks or I wanted any support I will not return it back to SD, for just that reason I would reccommend XIDA's and I wish I did. In the big picture you arn't talking that much more $$$ when you look at a complete shock assembly. Also 949's support is awesome, now that I think about it, just buy whatever you think you need from 949 and Trackspeed and you will have no worries. Just make sure your checkbook is huge!!!
I also had pad fade on my first miata track day due to the proper pads not being delivered in time. It sucked having to slow down every third lap just to be able to slow down when turining into the indfield ar Rockingham. One session I did 3 ***** to the wall laps to see what I could get up to on the three NASCAR turns and it scared me to death when I hit the brakes and no matter how much pressure I applied it was only gonna slow down sooo fast, luckily the oval continues past the point that it turns into the infield so I only pushed a few cones.
Moral of the story, if you are going to do it right, make sure you have more brakes (and brake confidence) than you will ever need, and then learn to drive the car without using them especially NA. I think it was Hustler that had a few brake failure stories, ask for his opinion on brakes.
OP, you seem to be doing things right. Good decision on XIDA's. I wish I did. I did the SD route and love my shocks, I have never had this much confidence in the car, but if anything ever happened to my shocks or I wanted any support I will not return it back to SD, for just that reason I would reccommend XIDA's and I wish I did. In the big picture you arn't talking that much more $$$ when you look at a complete shock assembly. Also 949's support is awesome, now that I think about it, just buy whatever you think you need from 949 and Trackspeed and you will have no worries. Just make sure your checkbook is huge!!!
Reply
0
0
04-25-2012, 07:36 PM
#56
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 105
Total Cats: 1
Look at that pretty purple butt! Lol.
When I bought the car, there was a clunk in the front end when turning that I wasnt too worried about seeing as I had planned to replace everything. Well, I think this is what was causing it.
(Front right side)
The lower rear control arm bushing seems like its missing some rubber doesnt it?
For anyone who was wondering, I have not seen this posted anywhere. It IS possible to do the front bushings without removing the balljoints. Wasnt that bad actually if you have a balljoint tool to push the bushings out.
Bushings are all done. RB front sway bar is in. Waiting for 949 endlinks to come back in stock.
Just for my reference for what i need -
alignment (new eccentrics if budget allows)
grease for control arms + wheel bearings
Front hubs
pass rear axle/hub
949 endlinks (torque sway/endlinks)
dtc-60 pads
rotors
fab up "test pipe"
sfi rollbar padding
bleed brakes
research rad hoses
paint cage/order paint
choose color for hardtop (gloss or flat black?)
finish welding tunnel notch
trans/diff fluid swap (what diff fluid for torsen?)
new shift boot
pyrometer (research)
data acquisition
coolant temp gauge
loop PS lines (for now) - find pulley for ac?
When I bought the car, there was a clunk in the front end when turning that I wasnt too worried about seeing as I had planned to replace everything. Well, I think this is what was causing it.
(Front right side)
The lower rear control arm bushing seems like its missing some rubber doesnt it?
For anyone who was wondering, I have not seen this posted anywhere. It IS possible to do the front bushings without removing the balljoints. Wasnt that bad actually if you have a balljoint tool to push the bushings out.
Bushings are all done. RB front sway bar is in. Waiting for 949 endlinks to come back in stock.
Just for my reference for what i need -
alignment (new eccentrics if budget allows)
grease for control arms + wheel bearings
Front hubs
pass rear axle/hub
949 endlinks (torque sway/endlinks)
dtc-60 pads
rotors
fab up "test pipe"
sfi rollbar padding
bleed brakes
research rad hoses
paint cage/order paint
choose color for hardtop (gloss or flat black?)
finish welding tunnel notch
trans/diff fluid swap (what diff fluid for torsen?)
new shift boot
pyrometer (research)
data acquisition
coolant temp gauge
loop PS lines (for now) - find pulley for ac?
Reply
-1
-1
04-25-2012, 10:02 PM
#57
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Auckland, NZ
Posts: 992
Total Cats: 57
Stuiephoto - does your roll cage allow the hard top clips to open and close, I mean can you readily remove the hardtop with out unscrewing / unbolting things?
I have just found out my pending (next week) half cage is going to have to be a full cage if I want to take passengers. Which is a bloody pain because I really do.
As a road / track car a full cage means I need a sanctioned log book, have to do one sanctioned event a year for ever to retain road legality, probably CAN'T readily remove the hardtop etc....
And here I was worrying about keeping or removing the soft top..!!
I have just found out my pending (next week) half cage is going to have to be a full cage if I want to take passengers. Which is a bloody pain because I really do.
As a road / track car a full cage means I need a sanctioned log book, have to do one sanctioned event a year for ever to retain road legality, probably CAN'T readily remove the hardtop etc....
And here I was worrying about keeping or removing the soft top..!!
Reply
0
0
04-25-2012, 10:24 PM
#58
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 105
Total Cats: 1
Stuiephoto - does your roll cage allow the hard top clips to open and close, I mean can you readily remove the hardtop with out unscrewing / unbolting things?
I have just found out my pending (next week) half cage is going to have to be a full cage if I want to take passengers. Which is a bloody pain because I really do.
As a road / track car a full cage means I need a sanctioned log book, have to do one sanctioned event a year for ever to retain road legality, probably CAN'T readily remove the hardtop etc....
And here I was worrying about keeping or removing the soft top..!!
I have just found out my pending (next week) half cage is going to have to be a full cage if I want to take passengers. Which is a bloody pain because I really do.
As a road / track car a full cage means I need a sanctioned log book, have to do one sanctioned event a year for ever to retain road legality, probably CAN'T readily remove the hardtop etc....
And here I was worrying about keeping or removing the soft top..!!
http://www.rennenmetal.com/proddetail.asp?prod=1335
Reply
0
0
04-25-2012, 11:46 PM
#60
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 105
Total Cats: 1
Ill have to take a look. Im putting the new ones in anyways-- I am just replacing wear items in the suspension so I know what my starting point is. At 140k miles, I dont know how much longer some of these parts have. Ill keep them for emergency spares if they are in fact r edition-- but I have not read in any of the literature that the 95m comes with them. Ill compare next time im at the shop for future reference.
Reply
0
0
