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Old 05-25-2015, 02:55 AM   #301
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Thanks guys. Pretty much what I was thinking too. I'm going to start looking for an MSM rad and keeping a close eye on the gauge (I have been ever since my "discovery"). I'd upgrade to something nice, but the car see's such short bursts of WOT that it'd probably just be a waste of money.
You can buy one through mazdamotorsports. Or a mazda dealer. I bought one from a local mazda dealer, and told him I wanted a better price, and he said tell me what I gotta beat. I told him I found one online for 230+ shipping. He said I can have it tomorrow for 230.

It's a nice radiator too, it's not junk especially for the price.
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Old 05-26-2015, 12:02 PM   #302
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I’ll share my experience. PO did the same thing to me, 16mm radiator, didn’t notice until I overheated bad one morning last summer. I replaced it with a 37mm koyo. I run 80% water, 20% coolant. Both my fans work. On 100F+ days I have to turn the AC off on my drive home. What really kills me, for whatever reason, is a 3 mile slightly uphill section. The grade isn’t posted because it’s small enough to be insignificant. That uphill section sends my temps from 207 up to 220 in a heart beat. I nearly always end that stretch with the windows down and heater on. My MSM has an intake, and the boost turned to 9psi, that’s really it for power mods. It’s the dumb FM hot air intake though. I’m working on fixing that. Currently I’ll see IAT’s that are consistently 45 degrees above ambient :-/

My personal plan is to replace the OEM fan and shroud with my own shroud and SPAL fans that flow a lot more air, and then to do some good ducting whenever I have the bumper off next. I have a hood vent right behind the radiator and sealed between the fan shroud and radiator using aluminum tape.

I’d recommend upgrading the radiator, I’ve never had a car that was just begging to overheat the way this one does. I use torque on my phone to keep an eye on it, but I also did the linear temp gauge mod just to be sure I had more visual indication.
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Old 05-26-2015, 12:04 PM   #303
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Thanks for your input. I knew there must be others with the same issue since so many people replace the msm rad not knowing there's a difference.
Welp, a koyo is on the way
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Old 05-26-2015, 12:11 PM   #304
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<p>Humming we covered this in your build thread on cr.net. Ducting ducting ducting ducting. Shroud will help when you are stopped in traffic, but that uphill section is just begging for ducting. A shroud might even slow air down.</p>
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Old 05-26-2015, 12:59 PM   #305
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<p>Humming we covered this in your build thread on cr.net. Ducting ducting ducting ducting. Shroud will help when you are stopped in traffic, but that uphill section is just begging for ducting. A shroud might even slow air down.</p>
I know, but the problem is I'll still get to 215 stuck at red lights and such. I'm going to add in a switch to be able to put the fans to full throttle manually. The ducting will come eventually as well, just not quite yet. I need to finish designing the shroud though. I still think more fan will solve my issue because I have several examples of more fan solving cooling issues, and not as many for the ducting. That's probably because more people go the fan route than the ducting, but given my limited down time for the car, ducting will need to wait until I have a 2nd car.
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Old 05-26-2015, 01:02 PM   #306
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Are you still on the 16mm rad? Why not start there?

lol maybe I'm missing something
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Old 05-26-2015, 01:09 PM   #307
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Are you still on the 16mm rad? Why not start there?

lol maybe I'm missing something
No, I'm on the 37mm, and while I don't overheat every time, it does still get out of control sometimes. the 120F heat we see in the summer still gives me problems and I want to make it even better.
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Old 05-26-2015, 01:10 PM   #308
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I'm on the older, less efficient 37mm koyo, not the current improved design.
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Old 05-26-2015, 03:54 PM   #309
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In our testing, the stock MSM rad was more efficient than some of the aftermarket ones we had on the rig. It's a pretty good piece, by far the best of the factory stuff.
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Old 05-26-2015, 03:58 PM   #310
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In our testing, the stock MSM rad was more efficient than some of the aftermarket ones we had on the rig. It's a pretty good piece, by far the best of the factory stuff.
Yeah, I read the whole thing on your website. The only bummer is: aluminum end tanks. Radiators with plastic end tanks just live a shorter life here in the desert, I wanted not to have to worry about that. I do wish I'd gone with the 55mm koyo though.
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Old 06-04-2015, 11:35 AM   #311
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Hi guys, ive read 16 pages of this but am still unsure if what i am looking for is achievable. I live in an area of 90% humidity, 100 ambient temps and 150 track surface temps. A friend with an fm2 kit (270 whp) and a 50mm radiator + 1inch vented bonnet couldnt last more than 15 minutes. Indeed. Thus far few road going turbocharged cars could do better under grueling track conditions. The issue seems to be the air conditioning exchange core. (We cant live without it after all)Has anyone in the sand states achieve a sustainable cooling ssytem? Ive started with trackspeeds 76 mm radiator but have yet to embark on the rest of the project to turbocharge the car.

Last edited by Miata2100; 06-04-2015 at 12:02 PM.
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Old 06-04-2015, 11:37 AM   #312
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That humidity is good for cars but bad for people. And be glad that you're not at high altitude

We've got prototype electric water pump setups going out to a couple of testers as well as on a car here. It worked very well on an NC, now we'll see how it works on the NB. We redesigned the flow for the entire system, even taking the turbo coolant into effect. No hot water gets recycled into the engine, it all goes through the rad.
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Old 06-04-2015, 11:47 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by Miata2100 View Post
Hi guys, ive read 16 pages of this but am still unsure if what i am looking for is achievable. I live in an area of 90% humidity, 100 ambient temps and 150 track surface temps. A friend with an fm2 kit (270 whp) and a 50mm radiator + 1inch vented bonnet couldnt last more than 15 minutes. Indeed. Thus far few road going turbocharged cars could do better. The issue seems to be the air conditioning exchange core. (We cant live without it after all)Has anyone in the sand states achieve a sustainable cooling ssytem? Ive started with trackspeeds 76 mm radiator but have yet to embark on the rest of the project to turbocharge the car.

Just do everything you can:

-big radiator
-run distilled water and water wetter
-seal air flow around radiator
-coolant reroute (with appropriate head gasket)
-new/recent water pump
-Vented hood (if needed)
-A/C delete (if needed)


Not much else you can do... maybe Keith's electric coolant pump
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Old 06-04-2015, 11:48 AM   #314
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Originally Posted by Miata2100 View Post
Hi guys, ive read 16 pages of this but am still unsure if what i am looking for is achievable. I live in an area of 90% humidity, 100 ambient temps and 150 track surface temps. A friend with an fm2 kit (270 whp) and a 50mm radiator + 1inch vented bonnet couldnt last more than 15 minutes. Indeed. Thus far few road going turbocharged cars could do better. The issue seems to be the air conditioning exchange core. (We cant live without it after all)Has anyone in the sand states achieve a sustainable cooling ssytem? Ive started with trackspeeds 76 mm radiator but have yet to embark on the rest of the project to turbocharge the car.
Still running stock fans?
FM's airflow kit will be a tremendous help based on what I've seen from others. I'm building my own, hope it gives me the added cooling I need. If not, ducting and a larger radiator is probably next up after that.
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Old 06-04-2015, 01:20 PM   #315
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Still running stock fans?
FM's airflow kit will be a tremendous help based on what I've seen from others. I'm building my own, hope it gives me the added cooling I need. If not, ducting and a larger radiator is probably next up after that.
I think the general consensus is that fans are worthless at track speeds. One stock fan is plenty to keep my car cool- it never runs until cooldown laps...

Ducting smashes 100mph air into the radiator. No fan can do that.
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Old 06-04-2015, 01:26 PM   #316
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Miata2100: Tell us about your ducting setup.
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Old 06-04-2015, 01:29 PM   #317
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I think the general consensus is that fans are worthless at track speeds. One stock fan is plenty to keep my car cool- it never runs until cooldown laps...

Ducting smashes 100mph air into the radiator. No fan can do that.
No, most of that 100 mph goes around the nose of the car. Very little of it goes through the rad due to the high pressure stacked up behind the radiator. It would be interesting to measure speed, although the mass of the air would be a more important measurement. Fun experiment: get some big fans blowing over the front of your car, then see if you can spray water on the radiator (or IC, or AC condensor, whatever is leading the charge).

Fans and good shrouding made a significant difference to one of my cars at a steady 75 mph.
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Old 06-04-2015, 01:32 PM   #318
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No, most of that 100 mph goes around the nose of the car. Very little of it goes through the rad due to the high pressure stacked up behind the radiator. It would be interesting to measure speed, although the mass of the air would be a more important measurement. Fun experiment: get some big fans blowing over the front of your car, then see if you can spray water on the radiator (or IC, or AC condensor, whatever is leading the charge).

Fans and good shrouding made a significant difference to one of my cars at a steady 75 mph.

This was my experience as well with my MSM. I'm sure Keith remembers this well as it involved a couple panicked emails as my the garbage fans that came with my radiator started to let the car overheat on the highway somewhere in the middle of Kansas, but would keep perfectly acceptable temps at idle/in traffic for hours at a time.

All fixed with an FM Stage 1 Airflow kit.

Sounded completely backwards to me at the time as well. I ran my MX6 with NO FANS for 2 years, and it did the opposite. Overheated in traffic, ran cool on the highway. And yes, i argued with Keith and Jeremy about it in person, too.
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Old 06-04-2015, 01:52 PM   #319
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Sounded completely backwards to me at the time as well. I ran my MX6 with NO FANS for 2 years, and it did the opposite. Overheated in traffic, ran cool on the highway.
My Silver car, which I've been running with WI and no IC, behaved exactly like your MX6. Ran it with a reroute, OEM automatic radiator, OEM air guide/undertray and OEM fans (both fans although the AC fan would stay off unless the AC was on). Not only did it run cool on the highway, it also ran cool on track. But God help you if you got stuck in a traffic jam in 100F+ weather with the AC turned on. So, my experience with that car contradicts what Keith is saying -- at least in the case where an intercooler is not present.

I'm now adding a big Fab9 intercooler to the car. It really blocks that mouth. I expect to be struggling with cooling a bit until I find the right combination.
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Old 06-04-2015, 01:56 PM   #320
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My Silver car, which I've been running with WI and no IC, behaved exactly like your MX6. Ran it with a reroute, OEM automatic radiator, OEM air guide/undertray and OEM fans (both fans although the AC fan would stay off unless the AC was on). Not only did it run cool on the highway, it also ran cool on track. But God help you if you got stuck in a traffic jam in 100F+ weather with the AC turned on. So, my experience with that car contradicts what Keith is saying -- at least in the case where an intercooler is not present.

I'm now adding a big Fab9 intercooler to the car. It really blocks that mouth. I expect to be struggling with cooling a bit until I find the right combination.
One of the common trends at the moment is that i know of at least 3 MSMs in particular that did exactly as Keith says. Humming, myself, and Mazduh had a similar experience with his.

I dunno. One of the reasons i'm glad i'm not messing with a turbo BP Miata anymore.
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