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Old 07-15-2014, 06:25 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Whats with the fear of cutting the cross braces? Yeah it makes the hood floppy when its up and removed the spot the stock hood prop goes to, but with a couple of properly adjusted aerocaches + the venting = less hood rise and ripple than the stock setup at speed.
Agreed. A lot of people have a mental block about it for some reason. Removal of some of the support structure isn't a big deal.
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Old 07-15-2014, 06:32 PM   #62
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Would this be an appropriate place to discuss reversing the flow?
Why? Trying to keep the head cooler?
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Old 07-15-2014, 07:22 PM   #63
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Why? Trying to keep the head cooler?
I did it to make more power. The electric pump has less parasitic drag, and it gives you an opportunity to run water in a totally different direction.

I am hoping reversing the flow will cause the motor to be more detonation resistant than cooling the block first.
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Old 07-15-2014, 07:52 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by cyotani View Post
Nice summary of info Emilio. I third the conduction/convection corrections.




keith, how did you determine these pressures. Some sort of in vehicle testing of from a CFD type analysis?
Brandon and I generated the NC map using on-vehicle testing with a magnehelic gauge. Mark Perry did the NA and NB, I believe with a similar method.

We're playing with electric water pumps on a couple of cars. Previous experiments weren't that promising, but the newest generation looks good. We have not changed the flow of the water. One of the coolest things is that it can run in closed loop with no thermostat. In fact, it appears the ND has a clutched water pump from the factory.

Miata owners can be...difficult. If we can avoid cutting support structure, that's preferred. Besides, if an efficient vent can be designed that doesn't require any cuts to the support structure, where's the harm?
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Old 07-15-2014, 07:58 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by ThePass View Post
I've got templates made up for the NA hood and could do the same for the NB..
Would be a short run though, sadly anything involving cutting your car up only appeals to a small niche of the community.

-Ryan
Interested in hearing more about this. Got pics of your design?
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Old 07-15-2014, 11:06 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith@FM View Post

We're playing with electric water pumps on a couple of cars. Previous experiments weren't that promising, but the newest generation looks good. We have not changed the flow of the water. One of the coolest things is that it can run in closed loop with no thermostat.
You would not happen to have done any before and after electric water pump dyno tests, have you?
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Old 07-16-2014, 12:36 AM   #67
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Source of the NA/NB hood pressure maps

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePass View Post
I've got templates made up for the NA hood and could do the same for the NB..
Would be a short run though, sadly anything involving cutting your car up only appeals to a small niche of the community.

-Ryan
As someone who is close to cutting holes in a MSM hood...I am interested. More details please. Will it have a lip to increase extraction efficiency? More and bigger hole than the Subie vent? Seriously, depending on timeline I may buy a set from you. I have to do something before Miatas@Hallett or I'll spend half of Friday running cool down laps.
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Old 07-16-2014, 12:50 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomiboy View Post
Interested in hearing more about this. Got pics of your design?
Here's a snapshot of the AutoCAD file.. this is for the NA hood



Up until just a little while ago, I was running a hood in which I had these three holes cut out which matched the gaps in the supports below, always loved the look. Made this to fit the same idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by midpack View Post
As someone who is close to cutting holes in a MSM hood...I am interested. More details please. Will it have a lip to increase extraction efficiency? More and bigger hole than the Subie vent? Seriously, depending on timeline I may buy a set from you. I have to do something before Miatas@Hallett or I'll spend half of Friday running cool down laps.
I took a look at my NB today, looks like I can do something similar on that hood as well. Shapes are a little different but similar layout.
I have a different part coming out of the waterjetter end of this week, so I might have them cut a prototype of this at the same time so I can fuss around with it.

-Ryan
Attached Thumbnails
Miata cooling system thread-nahoodlouvresample_zps46d98f9f.jpg   Miata cooling system thread-nahoodlouvresample_zpse1eac11c.jpg  

Last edited by ThePass; 07-17-2014 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 07-16-2014, 01:21 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePass View Post
I took a look at my NB today, looks like I can do something similar on that hood as well. Shapes are a little different but similar layout.
I have a different part coming out of the waterjetter end of this week, so I might have them cut a prototype of this at the same time so I can fuss around with it.

-Ryan
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Old 07-16-2014, 08:51 AM   #70
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These NA pressures make sixshooter's dual subie extractors look superior to any centered-hood-hole-behind-the-radiator. I don't believe the numbers I used showed such a large difference L-R.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
I would have thought if the oil temp was 235 and the water temp was 200 the factory oil sandwich plate would make some positive contribution to oil cooling during operation. But using an external cooler is, of course optimal. I'm currently using both which is probably not necessary....
Given your car is both track and daily driven, I'd think you've got the best case. The OE cooler/warmer is get your oil up to temp on DD and the external cooler is doing it's job for any elevated temps.
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Old 07-16-2014, 08:56 AM   #71
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I know I did the center vent and tried to get over to the lower pressure, but I did it assuming that the pressure in the engine bay would still be higher than ambient, and that my 1" long "spoiler" on the leading edge would also decrease pressure behind it. It certainly works. When my coolant overflow (poland springs) bottle gets coolant in it, its sucked right out and onto the windshield.
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Old 07-16-2014, 10:11 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
...assuming that the pressure in the engine bay would still be higher than ambient...
Agreed- and the center location probably does lapse into the negative areas. And the center location is documented to work many times here and elsewhere (I did the same with cooper scoop). I was just surprised to see the pressure difference across the front of the hood in that area.
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Old 07-16-2014, 10:35 AM   #73
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Awesome thread Emilio. I look forward to your oil cooler thread too.

Excellent find on the subaru vents sixshooter! That seems ideal. I may have gone that route.

I've come across these very pretty pictures that I used in picking my hood vent and oil cooler location along the NA centerline, but nothing beats real world testing with a gauge of some sort.
cfd | Hancha Blog



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Old 07-16-2014, 11:10 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePass View Post
Here's a snapshot of the AutoCAD file.. this is for the NA hood
Those look really good
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Old 07-16-2014, 01:23 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miata2fast View Post
You would not happen to have done any before and after electric water pump dyno tests, have you?
We were chasing cooling, not power. It wasn't dyno tested.
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Old 07-16-2014, 01:35 PM   #76
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I only have (positive) experience with the Pierburg CWA200. I stuck mine in my bumper, but these are small enough to fit almost anywhere. Here is a guy who makes a controller and has it on his miata:
Tecomotive



Every now and then I find the pump on ebay for cheap. Most standalones or an Arduino can be set up to control it if you didn't want to buy the finished controller above.
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Old 07-17-2014, 10:40 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePass View Post
Here's a snapshot of the AutoCAD file.. this is for the NA hood



Up until just a little while ago, I was running a hood in which I had these three holes cut out which matched the gaps in the supports below, always loved the look. Made this to fit the same idea.



I took a look at my NB today, looks like I can do something similar on that hood as well. Shapes are a little different but similar layout.
I have a different part coming out of the waterjetter end of this week, so I might have them cut a prototype of this at the same time so I can fuss around with it.

-Ryan
Hey Ryan. I'd love to talk to you about this project. You can contact me via my website. Shoot me an email. Thanks.

Shane
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Old 07-24-2014, 10:20 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
This is a question for an oil cooler thread. that we're drafting.

I think you mean the oil warmer. That giblet does nothing to reduce oil temps. Not a single track car in our shop has one. We typically use a Mocal thermostat sandwich plate and generic Chinese temp sender plate (Glow-shift, Greddy, etc)) stacked. TB coolant lines always capped off.
I'm hoping you will offer a oil cooler kit that is PNP .Down to the filter , with the correct size lines . I'll buy it now
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Old 07-24-2014, 10:53 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysOnKill View Post
I'm hoping you will offer a oil cooler kit that is PNP .Down to the filter , with the correct size lines . I'll buy it now
I've been talking with Andrew about this for the last few years. We decided to have him develop a kit. I asked him to draft The Oil Cooler thread to post here in Race Prep. His kits are built to order but pretty much PnP.
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Old 07-24-2014, 11:16 PM   #80
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Flyin' Miata also offers a PNP kit.

Flyin' Miata 1 800 FLY MX5s
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