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Can someone please enlighten me on the differences/benefits between 949racing and Tracskpeeds crossflow rads?
At nearly double the price, exchange rate not in our favour, international freight etc. I need a good reason to favour the TSE over the 949 Supermiata CSFlow...that i cant immediately see.
As we are slowly upping power levels and going to 1800 at some point soon with more power goals (320- 350 whp) I want to buy right but not spend excessively if i can help it.
So far an ali "race" rx7 non crossflow has served well but numerous engine issues (head gaskets, broken rods etc.) have swelled the rad out of shape and it is just getting old. Raised rev ceiling, bigger intercooler and smaller opening due to new airdam had us at our last meeting, for the first time with heat issues.
I suspect opening the hole slightly will resolve but time to upgrade anyway.... For radiator opening size reference.
Are you in NZ?
I had A1 Radiators in ChCh build a custom crossflow radiator that incorporates an oil cooler at the bottom.
By the time you get one here from the US it probably wont be too much more expensive to go custom.
I havent been on track with this yet but I dont forsee any problems keeping on top of my heat. (Mines a 1900 with gt2871r - in an exocet so a bit more open than yours admittedly)
Trackspeed is a dual-core, triple pass radiator. It has more cooling capacity, but is larger, heavier, and more expensive.
The Supermiata is a single-core, single pass radiator. In addition to being less expensive, it is also significantly lighter.
Unfortunately I can't speak to which would be more appropriate to your application, but I'd probably err on the side of the Trackspeed radiator since you are racing.
Multiple cores have been done for a long time in hot rod radiators. Increased internal surface area promotes better heat transfer from the coolant to the radiator.
The benefit of triple-pass is a little more complex, but essentially, if you increase the velocity of water through the radiator, you increase the efficiency of the heat transfer from the coolant to the radiator. By forcing all the water to travel through 1/3 of the rows three times, you increase the velocity, and therefore the efficiency.
I don't think anyone has done any direct A-B testing, nor do I ever expect to see that testing in a form which would make it useful. The SPM rad is the top of the line for single-core radiators, but IMO our radiator will dump more heat out of the system than an SPM rad will, simply owing to the size and design.
your not making it easy to save for an OS Giken!!!
Thanks for the comments. Am seeing if opening the inlet up this weekend improves things...also might have had to much Antifreeze, I realised afterwards I topped that up twice.
A number of things to work through before I panic purchase.
Trackspeed radiator=easy button. I cheaped out with a $100 2" ebay special. Same setup/usage as yours. 1.6/14psi/w2w/7000rpm every shift. ducting made the biggest difference, copied the ''tub liner'' method from here. your hood vents, don't know if they're in an ideal location. antifreeze killed my efficiency, straight water works best. (and it's sanctioned for w2w as a must in canada.) previous built motor saw 20psi boost, cooling was marginal on very hot days, uncomfortably close to 220F. trackspeed radiator would have been nice there.
Yes i did that A/Freeze overload once before and noticed a huge reduction in cooling efficiency.
When I was racing bikes at a national level they were crazy strict on not allowing glycol based coolant (understandably) and originally so was our car governing body but the last 5 years that seems to have gone by the wayside....weird.
I guess i'm really trying to see if 949 Crossflow is "good enough" versus the trackspeed one. As i say by the time we add 35% for exchange rate, $100 ish for freight, then factor in sales, tax and import and duty fees it gets damn expensive....even a $100 difference can end up being $250 - $300 more let alone an item double the price.
I have ducting and the vents are in a spot that 3-4 years ago was deemed to be low presure.....opinion may have changed since then
do you mind letting on how much power you made at 20psi?
If you guys have the means to fabricate aluminum, summit racing sells a cheap dual core aluminum radiator. You'll need to either change the outlets to Miata specific smaller sizes or make adapters. Mounting is left up to the end user as well but simple U brackets work well.
dynoed 280whp@18psi. later turned it up to 20psi, did not dyno again. grenaded after 60hrs, replaced with a junkyard oem 1.6. what's your oil temp? I'm running 190-210 depending on ambient for water and steady 240 at all times for oil.
measured the ebay rad, it's 2.25". dunno, my problem with the built motor was the paranoia that came with it.. I'd have no qualms about risking high oil/water temps. with a $250 junkyard engine in the heat of battle. mucho $$$ built motor, not so much.
Last edited by endura; 03-09-2017 at 08:56 PM.
Reason: sp.
Currently 2 meetings in to the fully built motor with rods, pistons, ported head, valve springs, ARP Studs, 949 competition clutch/flywheel. New motor boost creeps slightly so wastegate is around 11.5 psi on a 10 psi spring and makes around 235 whp. Our high boost setting is set to be around 15 but boost creeps 1.5 which made 263 whp. We could crank it up but while we have a competitive package it doesn't seem worth the extra stress and eventual cost increase.
So far while running in the motor and the 2 meetings, we have been doing pretty well on low boost with PB laps, a couple of wins, and podium places to be leading our series with 2 meetings to go. So haven't felt the need to run high boost on track properly yet.
I tried full boost for a start off pole but with the new race clutch ended up just sitting on the line with wheelspin and lost 3 spots by the first corner..... Im hoping my usually good starts were my own "skill" and not just a result of the previous clutch combination.....
This motor on low boost feels like our previous, not built but ported head motor on high boost (16 psi) so we are pretty stoked with it.
We are building a new chassis, one that isn't road legal like this car (we call WEE1 and has the number plate to match) so will be considerably lighter. At the same time we have a built 1800 coming (don't tell 18psi ) for this WEE1 chassis. I'll use this sunday blasts, hill climbs - Leadfoot festival, our road legal time attack class etc.
The new 1600 race car should be 100kg's or so lighter, so we have big expectations around that car.....oh and side intrusion bars !!! (mostly why a new chassis is being built)
edit: I should add for anyone with doubt, that while I may have temporarily lost my starts, the clutch/flywheel combo is AMAZING on track. The gearchange is so solid and sure, the car is unreal to drive.
No we ran the splitter/wing a couple of times on old motor.
At the first meeting with aero, I struggled to notice the difference BUT had gone from used Nittos to Hankook grooved slick the meeting prior without aero and for the class with aero (time attack), we had to run the Nitto. We ran similar times to the new hankooks so it was a gain just very hard to quantify. Front and rear balance seemed good. We didn't really get to good times until I ran the wing at about 7-8 degrees. any less wasn't noticeable.......we also didn't see a top end reduction at 7-8 deg so could probably go a lot higher in AOA which then probaly would have shown up the front end imbalance we noticed at the next meeting.....
The next meeting was at Pukekohe, not sure if you will know it ? (a famous/well known track... in Australasia at least, used for V8 supercars) we made huge gains in the 5th gear + corners but had severe understeer in turn 3, the turn on to the 800 ish metre back straight which is a 3rd/4th gear corner.
There is a section (2nd half) of the track that is exiting a hairpin through a series of s bends and is basically full throttle up to 4th through to 5th gear where you have to hold 5th and brake to set up the turn in and balance the car up and over on to the front straight, without aero.
With the aero I was getting to the point where no lift was necessary (except for muscle memory and mental safety) which I slowly got down to about a 2-5% lift and no brake. sadly this corner and no baffling is what terminated the old motor :(
I'm back at Pukekohe this weekend but with the Classic Japanese class so no aero. Time attack goes back there in about 2 months, be interesting to see how we go as I've made a 1.5 - 2" longer front splitter to try and improve the the 3rd/4th gear front end traction.
Photo at top is the car with the "larger" splitter.
Development has been relatively cautious as we are leading the Classic Japanese series and the "Street Pro" RWD class, Time Attack series. We haven't wanted to do anything to risky and lose out....
What turbo/manifold are you running?
Sorry to side track your post...ive just got my build up and running and through a first tune for a break in period and Im curious about how my figures stack up against other setups.
Its all good, its not a sidetrack, endura and I via pm decided to use this to also discuss 1600 stuff so go for it. Or pm me directly.
I use an awesome shorty, low mount steam pipe manifold made by an mx5 guru here in Auckland (i have to add who without his support I just wouldn't be racing (Paul / 2low2c) - he deserves a big shout out ) and a Gt2870rs ?? I forget the letters now...ceramic bearing...disco potato.?.
We tried a really nice long runner manifold from Simco and while Mike was awesome to deal with and the workmanship was great, it just didn't seem to suit the engine or our package or my driving....or whatever.
Ok cool. If youve got the disco potato i believe thats the preferred description for the gt2860. Ive not been around long enough to know where that label came from lol
Im using a glorious looking manifold from Sinco too, so its interesting you went away from theirs. If the weather allows it I might walk up and say hello at Puke to discuss that further.
You said you were going to look to increase power over the 300 mark. Will you just pump the boost up or are you thinking bigger turbo to get there?
gtx2860/FM manifold. Went through 2 local suppliers for custom manifolds, then smartened up. Flyin Miata cast manifold has been flawless for the last year, previous manifolds would barely make 3-4 hrs before something cracking.
03-08-2017, 03:01 AM
Crossflow Radiators...
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