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Old 08-21-2016, 11:34 PM   #81
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If we are going to do a firmware revision then we might as well have an input for decel too. Doing that correctly involves a stepper motor plugged in to the ECU for throttle blipping or DBW. That's actually quite a bit more complex to tune and I don't plan on dealing with it. For street I will just use the clutch for downshifts. Left-foot braking on the street doesn't really work when you're braking lightly. On the track however you are threshold braking and the right foot throttle blip to downshift actually works. So I think we will be able to survive without the decel portion. Since we are sort of blazing new ground here I think in the next year or two there will be a handful of others who step up to utilize the 60 or 90 G in a Miata. They could make use of whatever firmware Dmitri comes up with Ford downshifting if they do DBW or add the stepper motor for throttle blipping.

Last edited by emilio700; 08-22-2016 at 05:21 PM.
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Old 08-22-2016, 02:55 AM   #82
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Enable and configure loop1 in the generic programmable outputs as shown here:



Then select loop1 as the input for the shift cut.

Done.

If you want it on downshifts too - just set the additional condition to "Or" and set the actual condition to "sensor01" "<" "2.8" "0.1" or whatever figures you need.
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Old 08-22-2016, 05:15 PM   #83
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So full of win here. Can't wait to see/hear this thing flipping through the gears at the track.

As expensive as it seems to us with meager budgets, honestly, you're getting a LOT for your money with this trans. I spoke with Xtrac juuuuuust for grins to find out what their sequential transaxle setup costs from the PWC GT3 ATS-V.Rs (same trans would conceivably bolt up to an LFX/LF3). The transaxle, AGS pneumatic shift system, accessories, service parts, etc is an easy $100K / car
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Old 08-22-2016, 05:18 PM   #84
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DBW is supported in the new code. But requires an external controller. The safety issues with DBW are too much for msextra to take on themselves. The code comes with a disclaimer that there is no guarantee that there wont be incorrect commands sent, and that the controller should be able to handle out of bounds CAN commands safely.
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Old 08-22-2016, 09:01 PM   #85
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Wish there were something like an objective comparison between this, the Elite IL300, and the Sadev SCL82-17. Not that I'll have the cash for any of them for a while, but they seem pretty similar in terms of capability/cost.
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Old 08-22-2016, 09:02 PM   #86
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Drool....so jelly
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Old 08-22-2016, 10:21 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mekilljoydammit View Post
Wish there were something like an objective comparison between this, the Elite IL300, and the Sadev SCL82-17. Not that I'll have the cash for any of them for a while, but they seem pretty similar in terms of capability/cost.
You're kidding right? There are literally only a dozen or so people who would even be in the market for one. I can't see any unbiased source spending the money to perform any sort of controlled testing or evaluation. In our case, the choice was simple. Quaife offers a PnP kit. The QBE60G is proven box and just within our budget. I'd love an Xtrac or something world class but don't happen to have 40k laying around for a Miata transmission :P
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Old 08-23-2016, 12:46 AM   #88
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A friend use an Elite behind a Rover V8.
It needs transmission mounts in every section or you will snap the long bolts. Took some years to learn.

Even if they are rare in Miatas, you can extrapolate from other installations.
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Old 08-23-2016, 09:02 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
You're kidding right? There are literally only a dozen or so people who would even be in the market for one. I can't see any unbiased source spending the money to perform any sort of controlled testing or evaluation. In our case, the choice was simple. Quaife offers a PnP kit. The QBE60G is proven box and just within our budget. I'd love an Xtrac or something world class but don't happen to have 40k laying around for a Miata transmission :P
Sorry if it sounds like I'm griping or expecting something free - I know I'm not going to get that sort of testing without shelling out something like 40k for all 3 boxes and a bunch of test days (which I don't have). I'm just looking down my build list and seeing a space labelled "proper transmission" and... well, there's a few options I can stretch to, but I don't think I can get a second one if I choose wrong the first time, you know? It's intimidating.

Quote:
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A friend use an Elite behind a Rover V8.
It needs transmission mounts in every section or you will snap the long bolts. Took some years to learn.

Even if they are rare in Miatas, you can extrapolate from other installations.
Yikes, to heck with that. IL300 I assume? I'd hoped that looking at over-specifying in terms of torque would be safer, but doesn't sound like it. The annoying thing about Elite is that, over here in the US, I have a hell of a time finding any reports on it other than people in the UK being annoyed at the IL200 and then other people telling them they should have sprung for the IL300 because it'd be bulletproof.
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Old 08-23-2016, 11:54 AM   #90
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One persons experience is not the full truth, but anecdotes helps build a picture.

No racing box will be bullet proof or service free. And the intervals of services are much shorter than for an OEM 6speed, and we're not talking oil change here.

My friend have used the Elite during four Seasons and it's been to Elite twice for more involved service/part replacements. Besides all the work he done himself.
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Old 08-23-2016, 12:06 PM   #91
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I have a vintage dogbox built into an RX-7 case that I ended up having to spend a lot of R&D time on because there haven't been any parts made since the 80s and the guy who did them in his shed died some years back - so I'm familiar with that racing boxes won't be bulletproof or service free (and would really prefer something that parts exist for) "Needing transmission mounts in every section" sounds like a big design flaw though.
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Old 08-23-2016, 12:46 PM   #92
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I think the PnP kit is worth its weight in gold. Stock driveshaft, correct length, shifter is where its supposed to be, bolts right up to B series block. That's at least 2 weeks worth of custom fab work and guessing what parts to order, eliminated. The QBE90G is around 120lbs IIRC, good for 750bhp for those aiming past 350whp. I have a feeling though, that the 60G being rated for 375bhp will probably tolerate another 100bhp without issue.
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Old 08-23-2016, 01:19 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
I think the PnP kit is worth its weight in gold. Stock driveshaft, correct length, shifter is where its supposed to be, bolts right up to B series block. That's at least 2 weeks worth of custom fab work and guessing what parts to order, eliminated.
Exactly what I was getting at with my previous post. Serious value there.

I may have missed it, what's the 60G weigh?
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Old 08-23-2016, 02:33 PM   #94
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Quote:
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Exactly what I was getting at with my previous post. Serious value there.

I may have missed it, what's the 60G weigh?
85 lbs I think. Just a bit more than an AZ-6.
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Old 08-23-2016, 03:48 PM   #95
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FWIW, when I was considering a sequential for my FRS, there were 3 pnp companies to choose from:
Quaife qbe60/69g, Drenth, and Hollinger.
The Drenth and Hollinger were literally 3x more expensive than the Quaife and had no perceived performance advantage.

Then , when you consider the sheer amount of Quaifes in use world wide and the a available spares - it becomes even more of a bargain.

If the rules would allowit, I would seriously consider a Quaife for the Miata.
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Old 08-24-2016, 09:18 AM   #96
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And it looks like they have a helical gear set for those that don't want screaming gears? I don't know what that is giving up though.
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Old 08-24-2016, 11:08 AM   #97
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Some percentage goes into heat.
Energy lost as sound doesn't need cooling
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Old 08-24-2016, 11:54 AM   #98
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Not heat.

Thrust.

Helical gears try to move the shafts longitudinally. Spur gears dont.

So more drivetrain loss with helical.



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Some percentage goes into heat.
Energy lost as sound doesn't need cooling
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Old 08-24-2016, 01:30 PM   #99
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The helical vs spur (straight cut) debate depends on whether they are the same size or not and dog vs syncro engagement.The spur is usually a dog engagement, Helicals usually syncro which requires the gear to be a bit narrower. Narrower - less torque capacity. If both gears are the same width, the helical actually has more surface area so it would have greater torque capacity. This is assuming the resultant thrust loads are dealt with adequately. In the case of the QBE60G, the case is designed with bearings to accommodate those thrust loads. In the case of the QBE60G, the helical box is also dog engagement. So in theory at least, has greater surface area than the same width spur gear thus greater torque capacity and less noise. Everything else being equal, spur gears transmit torque more efficiently and run cooler as Dave mentioned. This is the reason I chose spur. Also because it sounds bitchin.


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Old 08-24-2016, 01:37 PM   #100
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Thanks Emillio! Learned a bunch just from that snippet. Would give a cat, but can't do that on mobile.

And yeah, the sound is amazing.
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