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Old 12-04-2015, 12:10 PM   #21
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Awesome! I had been watching 949 for this wing. I can make my own mounts but complete kit is even better. I'm about to get my Miata going again and this is one of pieces of the puzzle I was waiting for. I have the 3d style wing right now but had to add a gurney flap to balance out my canard/splitter. Problem is it had too much drag. At the highest speed track in my region I was down almost 10mph on the longest straight. Thanks for building this.
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Old 12-05-2015, 06:13 PM   #22
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Cheers!

I often refer to the GTC200 and other small 3D wings as 'gateway wings'. It's a lot of guy's first foray into a wing on their car, and despite it being far from ideal - relatively little downforce potential, lots of drag, etc. etc. the first time that guy goes around a track it's the eye opener that makes them a believer in aero from that point forward. The journey of adding front downforce follows, lap times continue to drop, and before you know it that wing is maxed out in angle and what started as a pretty draggy setup originally is now making monster drag, and eventually it gets tossed for a real wing.

A smart guy learns from his own mistakes, a wise guy learns from the mistakes of others
Our aim is to help guys skip all that process with a Miata-specific wing kit that offers competitive levels of downforce right out of the box and with efficiency as a leading priority in everything down to the details - something the Miata appreciates in particular.
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Old 12-05-2015, 10:13 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePass View Post
I often refer to the GTC200 and other small 3D wings as 'gateway wings'. It's a lot of guy's first foray into a wing on their car, and despite it being far from ideal - relatively little downforce potential, lots of drag, etc. etc.

what started as a pretty draggy setup originally is now making monster drag, and eventually it gets tossed for a real wing.
You have data for this? Looking at APR's CFD data, the GT250 has some definite benefits (slightly greater max downforce plus a larger adjustment range), but the GTC200 isn't that far behind on max downforce and has better efficiency (less drag for the same downforce) all the way across the chart.

Last edited by jpreston; 12-06-2015 at 01:37 AM.
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Old 12-06-2015, 02:07 AM   #24
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SO much want, please make a splitter kit
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Old 12-06-2015, 02:19 PM   #25
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Until the GTC200 shape gets redesigned for a Miata (never gonna happen), real world performance will always fall drastically short of the simulations. Mounting height, upright design, engplates, so many things affect what actually is happening on your car that the simulations are nearly meaningless. We've hit the same aero balance on the same car with a GTC200 at many degrees of angle and our kit at zero degrees.

You would need three sets of risers added to the GTC200's mounts to match the height of the GT250 in our kit, and it still wouldn't be as far back-swept.

Last edited by ThePass; 12-06-2015 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 12-07-2015, 11:35 AM   #26
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I don't doubt that it can make better downforce, especially in the location where you're mounting it. I was asking for data to support the claims of monster drag on the GTC200 when compared to the GT250.
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Old 12-07-2015, 11:50 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpreston View Post
I don't doubt that it can make better downforce, especially in the location where you're mounting it. I was asking for data to support the claims of monster drag on the GTC200 when compared to the GT250.
APR's own data shows about a 20% better L/D ratio. Beyond that, I think the Singular guys replicated something like the test I did in 2012; GTC200, duck tail, nothing and high mount GT250. I ran the test at ACS in Crusher, 141mph entry into T1-2 banking.

Clif notes:

GT250 and nothing were lowest drag (top speed). GTC-200 was slowest. Bare trunklid was almost undriveable from rear end lift. GT250 trimmed to negative angle gave same top end speed but got rid of enough rear lift to take T1-2 flat easily. Project goal was to reduce/eliminate rear lift with as little drag penalty as possible. GT250 was the clear winner of the options tested that day. Lowest lap time too of course.

Last edited by emilio700; 12-07-2015 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 12-07-2015, 12:10 PM   #28
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Interesting. I'm trying a setup with a rear wing and very little front downforce (just a PT-legal undertray, rad ducting, and hood vents for zero points) and based on APR's data I was thinking the GTC200 was the best option to balance the front with the least drag penalty. Looks like I might have been wrong. Guess I'll get to do my own back-to-back testing next year since I already bought a GTC200 and one of my friends has a GT250 that I can swap on.
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Old 12-07-2015, 01:23 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
nothing....141mph entry into T1-2 banking.....
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Old 01-11-2016, 06:32 PM   #30
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Pics courtesy of Cuong Tran, who just put down a serious sub-2:00 at Buttonwillow after adding the wing:





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Old 01-11-2016, 06:52 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePass View Post
Pics courtesy of Cuong Tran, who just put down a serious sub-2:00 at Buttonwillow after adding the wing:
Any data on his pre-wing time?
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Old 01-12-2016, 12:53 AM   #32
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Unsure, sorry I'm not familiar with the car.
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Old 01-15-2016, 10:27 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
the test I did in 2012; GTC200, duck tail, nothing and high mount GT250. I ran the test at ACS in Crusher, 141mph entry into T1-2 banking.

Clif notes:

GT250 and nothing were lowest drag (top speed). GTC-200 was slowest. Bare trunklid was almost undriveable from rear end lift. GT250 trimmed to negative angle gave same top end speed but got rid of enough rear lift to take T1-2 flat easily. Project goal was to reduce/eliminate rear lift with as little drag penalty as possible. GT250 was the clear winner of the options tested that day. Lowest lap time too of course.
Reading between the lines . . . a duck tail was better than the GTC-200?!?
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Old 01-16-2016, 08:32 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hornetball View Post
Reading between the lines . . . a duck tail was better than the GTC-200?!?
Not sure how you arrived at that conclusion, sorry. Duck tail cuts drag and lift a bit, depending on angle. Make very little downforce though. GTC200 will make a decent amount, albeit with more drag.
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Old 01-16-2016, 08:47 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Clif notes:

GT250 and nothing were lowest drag (top speed). GTC-200 was slowest. Bare trunklid was almost undriveable from rear end lift. GT250 trimmed to negative angle gave same top end speed but got rid of enough rear lift to take T1-2 flat easily. Project goal was to reduce/eliminate rear lift with as little drag penalty as possible. GT250 was the clear winner of the options tested that day. Lowest lap time too of course.
I think that is what he was reading into. Also something that I picked up from reading your post.
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Old 01-16-2016, 09:14 PM   #36
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^

Yep. That's what I saw. Thanks for the clarification Emilio.
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Old 01-16-2016, 11:29 PM   #37
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I'm genuinely surprised that there were any benefits to just a duck tail spoiler. I feel like most people say they are for "aerodramatics" only.
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Old 01-17-2016, 01:01 AM   #38
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for serious downforce you could make it a GT1000

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Old 01-17-2016, 01:40 AM   #39
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I haven't pointed this out yet, because the GT-250 has such a wide range of downforce potential that for 999/1000 track miatas it's the right choice... but the GT-1000 has the same bolt pattern on the wing mounts as the GT-250. So you can upgrade to a 1000 at any time in the future on this kit without changing anything else - just pull four bolts and drop it on. Or alternatively we can spec out the kit with the 1000 from the beginning if that's what someone wants, with the only change in cost being the additional price of the 1000 airfoil.

For low-speed only/high downforce cars as in SSM autox or for track cars planning massive front aero (i.e. front diffusers, front wing, 10" splitters...) this is relevant.

Last edited by ThePass; 01-17-2016 at 02:22 AM.
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Old 01-17-2016, 10:59 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin case View Post
I'm genuinely surprised that there were any benefits to just a duck tail spoiler. I feel like most people say they are for "aerodramatics" only.
See aerodynamic modeling. They reduce lift by slowing the speed of airflow across a surface. But a wing actually produces downforce, which is even better.
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