Another 6 speed bites the dust. - Page 15 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 11-18-2013, 08:48 PM   #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbundy View Post
Pretty much got to use the whole gear set from the RX8 to get the assumed stronger gear. 4th is machined right on the main shaft. I think you might be able to swap the input shaft and main gear between the two to allow using a standard off the shelf Miata clutch. Miata clutch has a 15/16X 22T input and RX8 has a 1"X23T

FWIW the 4th gear in the RX8 is odd ratio spacing compared to the Miata. I think it was done entirely for strength. The Miata has a slightly better ratio with even rpm drops between 3rd, 4th, 5th shifts but little tiny fragile teeth on the 4th gears to get that ratio.

ALSO I think the strength issue of 4th gear is dramatically diminished if the car doesn’t see the track. Almost never do you get the opportunity to do a full power run through the rev range in 4th gear for any kind of sane street driving even if you typically drive like a jackass every day to work. Especially combined with super sticky DOT Slick tires whereas on a track you could do it 3 or 4 times per lap.
don't forget the rigidity of the motor mounts.

what are you using? some super stiff competition mount, MSM mount, OEM?
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Old 11-18-2013, 09:33 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by glade View Post
So, while you are disassembling everything, would you be willing to measure out the synchros?

There has been speculation that the s2000 carbon fiber synchro rings might be a drop in replacement. Which might lead to an even better 6 speed, (at least in shift feel and quality).
I'll see what I can do. Finally getting some free trime to get mine back together.
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Old 11-19-2013, 12:35 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by mx594m View Post
don't forget the rigidity of the motor mounts.

what are you using? some super stiff competition mount, MSM mount, OEM?
I have AWR engine mounts the softest ones available which are absolutely brutal in a daily driver at ~3500 rpm and idle but made shifting precision so much better I decided to live with it. I will say that wheel hop on launches in first and second gear went away with removing the sprung clutch it also buzzes a lot when not loaded. Energy suspension Diff mounts. And I have also broken an aluminum Diff housing arm through the fail here notch and have since replaced it with a much beefier RX7 one.
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Old 11-25-2013, 02:35 AM   #284
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Sorry to get off topic for a second, I just bought a 6 speed a couple weeks ago and it didn't have the 4 bolt plate that holds the shifter on. (don't even know what its called)

Anybody have a toasted 6 speed laying around that they might be able to vulture for me?

THIS is what I'm workin with. I'd be happy to provide sexual favors in return, or just money for shipping and a 6 pack if your not a REAL miata owner.
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Old 11-25-2013, 11:33 AM   #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golferluke View Post
Sorry to get off topic for a second, I just bought a 6 speed a couple weeks ago and it didn't have the 4 bolt plate that holds the shifter on. (don't even know what its called)

Anybody have a toasted 6 speed laying around that they might be able to vulture for me?

THIS is what I'm workin with. I'd be happy to provide sexual favors in return, or just money for shipping and a 6 pack if your not a REAL miata owner.


Here it is new: CASE,CONTROL (Y601-17-470) - $68.83 - Y60117470 = $68.83

Although one of these guys with a busted 6 can probably provide for much cheaper. You are also going to need an complete bushing set to go with that, or possibly an upper and a tip bushing, and a shifter. What year is your 6 speed out of? Take the VIN off the side of the trans and drop it into CARFAX or something and it should be able to verify the year and reported mileage, if nothing else.

We can discuss payment options later
Attached Thumbnails
Another 6 speed bites the dust.-73a3ffef39b464ed0db43017f6d4dfc1__10856_std.jpg  
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Old 11-25-2013, 05:41 PM   #286
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Yup thats what I need, thanks for the info.

Its a 2001, jm1nb353110215330 don't know how to verify miles without paying for a report but I did find the car for sale on a salvage site. It shows picture of the odo @108k. Shifter etc I should be able to transfer from a 5spd? Idk I'll do some reading to figure out what parts can swap over.

Last edited by Golferluke; 11-25-2013 at 06:17 PM.
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Old 11-25-2013, 06:04 PM   #287
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Yeah, there are a couple of posts here just recently about shifter interchange. Check the WTB section, I think that's where I saw it.
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Old 11-25-2013, 06:47 PM   #288
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5 speeds and 6 speeds have different shifters.
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Old 11-25-2013, 07:23 PM   #289
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SHIFT LEVER KIT (PKM528-17-510A) = $119.95

Quote:
Fits:
1990-2005 Miata w/5-Speed Manual Transmission
1999-2001 Miata w/6-Speed Manual Transmission (Up to 08/01/2001 Production
I'm not saying they are right, but if they are wrong, someone needs to let them know.
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Another 6 speed bites the dust.-c804c71e5b89dbc0cee122542a1efbaa__62035_std.jpg  
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Old 11-28-2013, 02:23 PM   #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golferluke View Post
Sorry to get off topic for a second, I just bought a 6 speed a couple weeks ago and it didn't have the 4 bolt plate that holds the shifter on. (don't even know what its called)

Anybody have a toasted 6 speed laying around that they might be able to vulture for me?

THIS is what I'm workin with. I'd be happy to provide sexual favors in return, or just money for shipping and a 6 pack if your not a REAL miata owner.
If you haven't found it Yet I probably could spare one.
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Old 11-29-2013, 01:59 AM   #291
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Bob, at the risk of drifting this thread off topic, does the potential of a 3.3 gear set from MiataRoadster change any of your thoughts regarding the best individual gear ratios to choose?
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Old 11-29-2013, 07:17 AM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_hyde View Post
Bob, at the risk of drifting this thread off topic, does the potential of a 3.3 gear set from MiataRoadster change any of your thoughts regarding the best individual gear ratios to choose?
Same rpm percentage change between the gears of course, but more time spent in 4th and 5th.
A novice like me would assume that the time spend using full torque would be the major factor for failures of this kind.
This was the reason for suggesting 3.9+ to maximize the use of 5th and 6th (but Bob is going too fast for that solution).
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Old 11-29-2013, 08:57 AM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_hyde View Post
Bob, at the risk of drifting this thread off topic, does the potential of a 3.3 gear set from MiataRoadster change any of your thoughts regarding the best individual gear ratios to choose?

From the racer's ultimate top speed perspective...

For the 1:1 transmission ratio (4th in a Mazda 5 speed or 5th in a 6 speed) the input shaft and output shaft are directly coupled. No gears involved so this is the maximum efficiency & lowest transmission power loss gear. All other ratios have 2 pairs of gears involved so there is some power loss.

If you have the correct final drive (axle ratio) to use a 1:1 top gear transmission ratio, the added power (say >5%), should result in a slightly higher max speed.

Overall ratio vs. direct drive and Mazda overdrive transmissions
(See attachment - Over all ratio in top gear)


This now opens the transmission options to those with a 1:1 top gear ratio. For the high HP cars, something like the Richmond Road Race 5 speed or a T10 may work (these are wider ratio transmissions so they will not suit high RPM peaky power bands).

http://www.richmondgear.com/pdf/RG24.pdf

Lots of ratio options. Something like the following 2 gear sets may work.
(see attachment Richmond Road Race 5 sp).

Of course a transmission change such as the above will require a lots of other parts like: new bell housing, clutch, driveshaft, shifter, power frame mods, ... Weight will also be a concern as the 5 speed alone is 95lb, the T10 is a little lighter at 70 lb.

I have no experience with the Richmond Gear Road Race 5 speed transmission so I can not comment on quality or reliability. It is rated for V8 HP torque levels so 300+ HP should be no issue.

The above is of little value to the dual purpose road car...
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Over all ratio in top gear.pdf (5.9 KB, 131 views)
File Type: pdf Richmond Road Race 5 sp.pdf (4.3 KB, 95 views)
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Old 11-29-2013, 10:25 PM   #294
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Just read the full thread because I am going to track my miata next year again.
However, I don't have a solution as well but I have an onboard video of an auto-x miata with sequential Quaife gearbox from austria.

Enjoy and sorry for any blue *****

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Old 11-29-2013, 11:34 PM   #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_hyde View Post
Bob, at the risk of drifting this thread off topic, does the potential of a 3.3 gear set from MiataRoadster change any of your thoughts regarding the best individual gear ratios to choose?
The 3.3 doesn't make sense for my purposes with 6 speed boxes.

The 3.3 however makes some road race boxes with 1:1 finals doable. not as dual purpose as what could be done with a 6 speed but This for instance would be awesome on the track. its basically like a 6 speed 3.909 in terms of usable track gears using 2nd through 5th instead of 3rd through 6th and first gear is mid way between 1st and second. second gear would be too tall for autocross however.

Richmond 5 speed
Gear ratio Mainshaft countershaft
Drive - 27 31
1st 3.014 42 16
2nd 1.879 36 22
3rd 1.457 33 26
4th 1.188 30 29
5th 1.000 - -

Attached Thumbnails
Another 6 speed bites the dust.-richmond.png  
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Old 11-30-2013, 08:47 AM   #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbundy View Post
The 3.3 doesn't make sense for my purposes with 6 speed boxes.

The 3.3 however makes some road race boxes with 1:1 finals doable. not as dual purpose as what could be done with a 6 speed but This for instance would be awesome on the track. its basically like a 6 speed 3.909 in terms of usable track gears using 2nd through 5th instead of 3rd through 6th and first gear is mid way between 1st and second. second gear would be too tall for autocross however.

Richmond 5 speed
Gear ratio Mainshaft countershaft
Drive - 27 31
1st 3.014 42 16
2nd 1.879 36 22
3rd 1.457 33 26
4th 1.188 30 29
5th 1.000 - -



Another 1:1 top gear 5 speed is the "G-Force GF-5R". A straight cut dog clutch race only alternative.

If buying used, make sure you get the road race version and not the "clutch less or torsion bar" versions intended for drag racing.

https://www.gforcetransmissions.com/tran_gf5r.asp

Huge range of ratios available:
https://www.gforcetransmissions.com/pdfs/GF5r_ratio.pdf

The basic transmission is about $5-6,000 so more costly than the Richmond option.

Both of the G-Force and Richmond Gear transmissions are evolutions of an older Doug Nash Transmission design.

G-Force has many other transmission choices available. The GF-5R is likely overkill based on the HP possible from even a high boost BP.
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Old 11-30-2013, 10:59 AM   #297
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A 6sp with a stronger 4th looks to be the optimal thing to have (as we have established a couple of times in this thread), no fabbing required
3.6->3.3 is a bigger step than 3.9->3.6

The 6th would be a street only gear for those who aren't that fast (7500 shift point in this graph though).
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Another 6 speed bites the dust.-6sp-vs-richmond.png  
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Old 11-30-2013, 05:33 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by 99Racer View Post
Another 1:1 top gear 5 speed is the "G-Force GF-5R". A straight cut dog clutch race only alternative.

If buying used, make sure you get the road race version and not the "clutch less or torsion bar" versions intended for drag racing.

https://www.gforcetransmissions.com/tran_gf5r.asp

Huge range of ratios available:
https://www.gforcetransmissions.com/pdfs/GF5r_ratio.pdf

The basic transmission is about $5-6,000 so more costly than the Richmond option.

Both of the G-Force and Richmond Gear transmissions are evolutions of an older Doug Nash Transmission design.

G-Force has many other transmission choices available. The GF-5R is likely overkill based on the HP possible from even a high boost BP.
For that kind of money I'm thinking NISMO gears stuck into a 6 speed Miata Case. It's kinda like the Quaife Gears for the 5 speed but it results in a close ratio 6 speed with really good ratios. Also no screwing around with the belhousing, ppf, shifter, or clutch other than the clutch disk splines.
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Old 11-30-2013, 06:37 PM   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99Racer View Post
From the racer's ultimate top speed perspective...

For the 1:1 transmission ratio (4th in a Mazda 5 speed or 5th in a 6 speed) the input shaft and output shaft are directly coupled. No gears involved so this is the maximum efficiency & lowest transmission power loss gear. All other ratios have 2 pairs of gears involved so there is some power loss.
Ummm no... 1:1 just means the gears have the same number of teeth. 4th(or 5th) are still connected by ONE pair of gears just like 1st, 2nd, etc.
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Old 11-30-2013, 07:19 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by Rennkafer View Post
Ummm no... 1:1 just means the gears have the same number of teeth. 4th(or 5th) are still connected by ONE pair of gears just like 1st, 2nd, etc.
Correct, and the miata 5 speed 4th is 1.1:1. Now the 4 speeds we talked about earlier have direct connections in their 1:1 4ths. Not sure on the Nash style 5 speeds.
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