The Better Bilstein Ebay Coilover Thread - Page 11 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 07-08-2014, 02:33 PM   #201
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I dont see how you're going to get anything resembling a decent ride height with so much spring. Probably going to end up with stock ride height or higher.
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Old 07-08-2014, 06:31 PM   #202
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you need adjustable shock bodies for preload while at full droop. not really sure why you care, full droop probably won't happen with a proper sway bar setup. maybe in the rears you would, but still.
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Old 07-08-2014, 07:18 PM   #203
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Finally assembled my budget setup... ended up going with the AWR sleeves after ordering a set of the ebay/China/MadeforHonda crap. The threads were way too narrow and thin for me to trust em.


Ended up slicing up an OEM Mazda NB Bushing (P/N 28-776B) into three sections, tossing out the middle one.

I've still got the factory bits going through the top hat to prevent shaft on top hat contact... and used the lower bit upside down above the top hat.

Added bonus? I could get a 10x1.25 nylon nut on the stack, without needing the extended reach Gorilla lug nuts. And was still able to use the thicker OEM washers (P/N 28-774) instead of the thinner fender washers.

Figure with the factory washers in place, it'll help keep the shafts from tearing through the thin sheet metal washers. Overkill? Perhaps.
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Old 07-08-2014, 07:19 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
I dont see how you're going to get anything resembling a decent ride height with so much spring. Probably going to end up with stock ride height or higher.
Possibly. I still need to measure everything to see how low I can bring the spring perches and such. Keep in mind that my 5" tenders have the same load at block height as your 3" tenders. It's not like I'm actually putting 12" circle track springs on it.
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Old 07-08-2014, 07:24 PM   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Track View Post
you need adjustable shock bodies for preload while at full droop.
That's wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Track View Post
not really sure why you care, full droop probably won't happen with a proper sway bar setup. maybe in the rears you would, but still.
All the people in this thread ripping off circlips proved otherwise. I don't want a car that "probably won't" **** itself in the middle of nowhere on a rough mountain road.
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Old 07-08-2014, 07:39 PM   #206
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well, my xidas have some preload while at full drop due to a second set of springs, but that's a bit different I think.

Dunno really. I ran bilsteins with ridiculous spring rates at the track, taking CMP gators/curbing at speed. never had any issues. My guess would be using sleeves that don't completely go over the clips. all-star sleeves do though... My other guess would be the used shocks have rusty clips, maybe it needs to be part of getting a used bilstein. I guess that's for you to figure out

13" springs is way over kill. not sure what you are aiming for, but its just not reasonable unless you plan to run 200 lb springs.
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Old 07-08-2014, 08:14 PM   #207
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Pretty sure what I just said in this post was wrong, since I just realized it assumed a stationary lower perch.
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Old 07-12-2014, 11:02 PM   #208
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I think it's better to use the Spec Miata sleeves even if they cost a couple bucks more. They fit the shock and they sit square on the circlip.

Last edited by wannafbody; 07-13-2014 at 09:35 PM.
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Old 07-13-2014, 04:37 PM   #209
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What should I set my ride height at? I have a little different of a setup with NB bilstein on my NA. I think I may be limited in how high I can go before I reach coil bind? My QA1 springs seem like they have little travel due to the thickness of the wire, so I'm guessing I wouldn't want to preload the springs much.
My Setup-95 miata
-NB Bilstein Sports
-Front 400 7inch/Rear 300 7inch
-NB top hats
-FCM 36mm Bumpstop

I found these numbers on FCM website he recommends 12.5 Front/12.75 Rear for 450/325 so I will see if that works for me. (FCM PDF)

Last edited by maxc14; 07-13-2014 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 07-13-2014, 09:37 PM   #210
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NB shocks are slightly longer than NA shocks. I'd add a quarter inch more height to the FCM numbers for a starting point.
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Old 07-13-2014, 10:05 PM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wannafbody View Post
NB shocks are slightly longer than NA shocks. I'd add a quarter inch more height to the FCM numbers for a starting point.
Yeah I pop the cir clip twice now on my shocks I know its something to do with NB bilstein not sure if its too much travel causing coil bind but I think I'm going to buy NA bilstein and sell my hardly used Nb's. Seems like most people have success getting little lower ride height with similar springs as mine.
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Old 07-14-2014, 06:45 PM   #212
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Why don't you just get a tape measure out instead of disassembling your suspension over and over?
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Old 07-14-2014, 07:24 PM   #213
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I should fix my issues after I change rear springs. Went to 8" from 7" 300lbs rear spring and I'm going to use eibach which has smaller block height. Also need to re-lathe my lower grooves seems like I went a little short on depth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Failure View Post
Why don't you just get a tape measure out instead of disassembling your suspension over and over?
How would you take measurements to determine coil bind? Im still learning here and my QA1 springs have no specs on block height.
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Old 07-14-2014, 11:28 PM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxc14 View Post
How would you take measurements to determine coil bind? Im still learning here and my QA1 springs have no specs on block height.
Number of coils * wire diameter

I assuming your springs springs are loose at full droop? Measure the distance from the spring to the upper perch with no load.

4" (front) or 5" (rear) - spring to perch distance - compressed bumpstop height (probably around 0.5") should be less than spring free length - block height.
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Old 07-15-2014, 12:58 AM   #215
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Let me make sure I understand. Assuming the springs are loose when on jackstands or jacked up.

Measure gap from the top of springs to top hat/upper mount.
Measure compressed bumpstop height (not sure what is being measure the top of shock body to top hat/shock mount?)
Add both up and that should be > free spring length-block height

This should be helpful to make sure I avoid anymore coil bind assuming I got all the measurements correct. My current rear and front springs both are not loose or tight I would call it zero preload. But I will measure my rear for coil bind with new springs.
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Old 07-15-2014, 11:30 PM   #216
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Add both up and subject the result from the stroke of the shock.
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Old 07-28-2014, 04:10 PM   #217
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Default Allstar coilover sleeve review

There’s been a few posters telling of circlips popping out of the groove and one mentioned using the Allstar sleeves instead. Having bought the Ebay sleeves myself, and knowing I was a little concerned about the clips I figured I’d buy one to look at and decide.

Here’s the Allstar sleeve and perch;



The first thing that hits you is the quality of the threads and that fact there’s a decent amount of lathe work that went into the part, both inside and out.

A couple things that stand out;
1. The counter bore for the circlip with a square shoulder to seat against. This should prevent the clip from being able to be forced out of the groove (I realize most people aren’t complaining about the clip coming out).
2. The inside profile is machined so that the shock body supports the sleeve at the top and bottom so no duct tape wrap is needed. The fit is snug and the sleeve actually needed to be tapped with a block of wood to fully seat down over the clip. But the sleeve is also removable the same way.






When installing, the sleeve just clears the clip and when fully seated the clip is approximately .600” inside the sleeve.


I don’t see how the clip can ever be forced out of the groove using this sleeve.



There are other benefits of the product that really show up when assembling and comparing against a similar setup using the Ebay sleeves. The location of the spring perch can be substantially lower than the Ebay units can be set to. Basically the Allstar sleeve & perch, at the lowest position that is still fully engaged on the threads is approximately .875” lower than the Ebay product.

I’ve seen various Miata suspension ratios but compared to the Ebay sleeves this would mean the ability to get to a point approximately 1.3” lower in the front and 1.2” in the back. This, and the capturing of the circlip to prevent failure, made it worthwhile to build the set using this setup.

Using my MSM Bilsteins, the front was;


Ebay sleeve;



And the rears are;


Ebay sleeve;



There’s still a bit of work that needs to be done, especially with the rear shocks to use the Allstar product. For one, the fronts need to use the 5” sleeve. Don’t even think about using a 7” sleeve as they’re too long.


Allstar doesn’t offer anything shorter than 5” so you’ll need to cut the rear sleeves to length (be careful to cut the end OPPOSITE the circlip counterbore and be carefull you don’t cut much more than 1 to 1-1/4” or you won’t have anything supporting the upper part of the sleeve. I cut mine to 4" OAL on my chop saw but It would be nice if Allstar offered a 4” or 3” sleeve length to allow for extended top hat clearance. Getting 1” of clearance is fairly easy though if you cut to 3-3/4 OAL.


So, all in all, are the better sleeves worth it? If peace of mind and more adjustability is important to you then I guess it is. I changed mine out.

I bought through Summit at $63.96 (sleeves) + $55.16 (adjusting nuts) but had a $20 coupon and shipping was free.

I’d give them a thumbs up.
Attached Thumbnails
The Better Bilstein Ebay Coilover Thread-2014-07-24%252010.32.31.jpg   The Better Bilstein Ebay Coilover Thread-2014-07-24%252010.35.42.jpg   The Better Bilstein Ebay Coilover Thread-2014-07-24%252010.35.56.jpg   The Better Bilstein Ebay Coilover Thread-2014-07-24%252010.41.19.jpg   The Better Bilstein Ebay Coilover Thread-2014-07-24%252010.21.28.jpg  

The Better Bilstein Ebay Coilover Thread-2014-07-24%252010.23.46.jpg   The Better Bilstein Ebay Coilover Thread-2014-07-24%252010.07.57.jpg   The Better Bilstein Ebay Coilover Thread-2014-07-26%252011.39.09.jpg   The Better Bilstein Ebay Coilover Thread-2014-07-24%252010.08.27.jpg   The Better Bilstein Ebay Coilover Thread-2014-07-26%252011.57.57.jpg  


Last edited by bahurd; 07-28-2014 at 05:12 PM.
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Old 07-30-2014, 02:05 PM   #218
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Adding to Bahurd's post...

-Make sure you get the 5" sleeve
-Also, sometimes the springs rub on the top of the sleeve. if you care, a spring isolator may help.
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Old 08-09-2014, 10:53 PM   #219
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Hey guys, new poster but long time Miata owner here (I"m on my 3rd na right now, a '93 black on tan.)

I've read through this thread multiple times, and unless I've missed it somehow, I still haven't figured out an answer to what spring length to get? I'll be on new na hd's, wanting to get the ride height somewhere between 12.5f/12.75r and 12.75f/13.0r. Spring rates I've just about settled on are 450/300. Car is a, ahem, spirited daily driver, and will probably see some autocross duty as well.

Wanting those heights, with hd's and sleeves, what spring lengths should I be looking at? 7"f, 8" rear? 6/7?

Thanks,

-Ben
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Old 08-10-2014, 08:26 AM   #220
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For those spring rates, seven inches front and rear should be just fine. If you were getting up above 600lbs you could use 6 inchers without bind. You could get away with 8 inchers but you will end up with more room for adjustment with the 7's. It helps the argument that Summit Racing offers all of the spring rates you could want in the 7 inch length but not in 8's.
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