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Old 03-07-2015, 04:10 PM   #441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wannafbody View Post
On a fast track with elevation changes 550/350 is a slight bit too soft for a stock Miata.
Good thing we are talking about an exocet that weighs like 800lbs less than a stock miata.
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Old 03-07-2015, 08:34 PM   #442
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Good thing we are talking about an exocet that weighs like 800lbs less than a stock miata.
Reading escaped him a bit.
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Old 03-09-2015, 11:56 AM   #443
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Less grippy than SM6 or SM7 Hoosiers.


It will go around corners faster but will not impart as much force into the springs as a heavier car with the same tire.
I don't think you need SM6 or SM7s for 800/500 springs. But you are right otherwise.
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Old 03-09-2015, 03:37 PM   #444
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This is my first time setting up a suspension system from scratch, and I suspect I didn't take the time to think it through and lay it out that I should have. When everything went together I'm no where near the ride heights I want to be at (4.5"ish).

In the back with the spring to full loose I'm about an inch and a half high, I'm not 100% sure about the fronts as one sleeve seized and will need to be replaced but I believe they have the same problem.

My setup
-95 Miata (NA)
-NB Bilsteins with what I assume are NB top hats (came assembled).
-550F/350R lb/in 7" QA1 springs
-Ebay sleeves machined with a 2.1" counterbore to allow the sleeve to seat around the circlip and flush to the top of the shock body

I don't see any way to get this setup lower with the exception of taller top hats or deeper counterbores and helper springs. Is there something I'm missing? If not I'm pretty tempted to hit the 949 easy button.
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Old 03-09-2015, 03:59 PM   #445
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Deeper top hats won't make you go lower, they're to adjust the ratio of bump to droop travel at a given ride height.

Your options are:
1) Lower the perches and use helpers to keep the spring seated
2) Buy shorter springs and use tenders to prevent binding

The first option will give you a rougher ride as the primary springs engage, but the second requires you to know your corner weights and do more math.
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Old 03-09-2015, 04:33 PM   #446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatCleary View Post
This is my first time setting up a suspension system from scratch, and I suspect I didn't take the time to think it through and lay it out that I should have. When everything went together I'm no where near the ride heights I want to be at (4.5"ish).

In the back with the spring to full loose I'm about an inch and a half high, I'm not 100% sure about the fronts as one sleeve seized and will need to be replaced but I believe they have the same problem.

My setup
-95 Miata (NA)
-NB Bilsteins with what I assume are NB top hats (came assembled).
-550F/350R lb/in 7" QA1 springs
-Ebay sleeves machined with a 2.1" counterbore to allow the sleeve to seat around the circlip and flush to the top of the shock body

I don't see any way to get this setup lower with the exception of taller top hats or deeper counterbores and helper springs. Is there something I'm missing? If not I'm pretty tempted to hit the 949 easy button.
There is your problem. They have a longer shock body.
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Old 03-09-2015, 04:36 PM   #447
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Shock body length won't affect ride height. It puts constraints on how much you can raise or lower the car, but it's the springs that handle all the raising and lowering.
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Old 03-09-2015, 05:04 PM   #448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatCleary View Post
This is my first time setting up a suspension system from scratch
Pat, we need to cross paths, soon.
You should take my 600lb/350lb '94 out for a spin.

It hasn't let me down yet, though I'm about ready to up the spring rates since I'll be running SM7s this season.
Look for a text from me, soon?
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Old 03-09-2015, 05:43 PM   #449
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I'm leaning towards the NB shocks being the problem. If the shock bodies are longer, the pistons aren't shorter, and the top hats aren't substantially deeper (they aren't or I have NAs and think I have NBs) then that's my problem.

Essentially I have a boat load of rebound travel from my desired ride height and it exceeds the amount the springs compress at static ride heights. New top hats would solve the problem (like failure said, by shuffling the bump/rebound ratio).
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Old 03-09-2015, 09:49 PM   #450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Failure View Post
Shock body length won't affect ride height. It puts constraints on how much you can raise or lower the car, but it's the springs that handle all the raising and lowering.
It will dictate the lowest the car can get.
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Old 03-10-2015, 03:28 AM   #451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seefo View Post
It will dictate the lowest the car can get.
Yes, that's what I said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Failure View Post
It puts constraints on how much you can raise or lower the car
Deeper top hats actually let you fit a shock of any length. You could run some ridiculous trophy truck shocks if you wanted as long as you were okay with them sticking out of the hood. That's not what his problem is though, so it's not really relevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatCleary View Post
New top hats would solve the problem (like failure said, by shuffling the bump/rebound ratio).
They won't, unless your problem is that your car is somehow bottomed out on the bump stops at static ride height. Deeper top hats raise where the shock rod mounts to the car. What you need to do is lower where the spring meets to the car. The only way to do that is to either lower the spring perch, or replace the springs with something shorter.

You should still get deeper top hats because it will make your suspension better, but if you want to go lower you're going to have to make changes to the spring.
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Old 03-10-2015, 10:54 AM   #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Failure View Post
Yes, that's what I said:


Deeper top hats actually let you fit a shock of any length. You could run some ridiculous trophy truck shocks if you wanted as long as you were okay with them sticking out of the hood. That's not what his problem is though, so it's not really relevant.


They won't, unless your problem is that your car is somehow bottomed out on the bump stops at static ride height. Deeper top hats raise where the shock rod mounts to the car. What you need to do is lower where the spring meets to the car. The only way to do that is to either lower the spring perch, or replace the springs with something shorter.

You should still get deeper top hats because it will make your suspension better, but if you want to go lower you're going to have to make changes to the spring.
it is his problem. lowest I could get with NB hats and NB bilsteins was 5". anything lower sits on the bumpstop (that is with heavily cut bumpstops).
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Old 03-10-2015, 04:28 PM   #453
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I have the NB shocks and the same length springs and about a 4.5 ride height. I've got ISC Racing tophats in the rear and NB tophats in the front and it is fine. I have a good distance before the rear bottoms into the bumpstops.
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Old 03-12-2015, 12:25 PM   #454
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I have the NB shocks and the same length springs and about a 4.5 ride height. I've got ISC Racing tophats in the rear and NB tophats in the front and it is fine. I have a good distance before the rear bottoms into the bumpstops.
how much distance do you have in the fronts? I had plenty of clearance in the rear also, but not much in the front.
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Old 03-12-2015, 12:34 PM   #455
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Originally Posted by Seefo View Post
how much distance do you have in the fronts? I had plenty of clearance in the rear also, but not much in the front.
I don't recall the travel distance and am not in a position to look for a few days. Just looking at the track pics it looks like I get at least 3 inches of upward travel at the tire* and about as much droop.
I'm not sure what that correlates to at the shock itself.

*Not an empirical measure
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Old 03-13-2015, 12:20 AM   #456
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And the shock is constrained at full droop? Cause I'm no where close (6.5" ride height is the spring loose at full droop).
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Old 03-24-2015, 10:45 AM   #457
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As long as they're both "linear" i don't really give a ****.

I think the 6b0600/0400 are the new style, actually. They're in their new catalog, and they're more expensive.

I just wasn't sure about progressive ****, because the pictures that some of the vendors have for the CO6 part numbers look like the ricey Eibach prokit crap.



Update: Ordered part numbers CO6-600 and CO6-400 from Autoplicity. Paid very little because old part number.

Received the updated current part numbers instead. Very happy.
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Old 04-03-2015, 01:35 AM   #458
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So, you allstar sleeve fanboyz are making me consider it worth the additional cost for the added adjustability with the sleeve a little lower.

-$58 for the 4 perches! More than the $43 ebay kits right there :(
-$64 for the sleeves.
So, $121 in sleeves and perches.

$15 for two sets of spring isolaters (total 4) (Energy Suspension 9-6103R)

$52 for 4 thrust bearings.

Plan is to run 500-550/325-350. QA1 or Summit both have me at about $50-60 a spring. So, unless someone says "HEY SCHUYLER BUY MY SPRINGS", Let's say $200 for new springs.

$21 for 4 Energy Suspension Bump Stops 7-6104G

So we're at $409 before shocks are even factored in.

Though, I have seen somewhere in here (don't remember if it was someone knowledgeable or not) suggesting that spring isolators were enough and thrust bearings are not necessary. That, combined with buying used springs, would cut down on costs by $100 or more.

Planning to just buy new bilsteins, and the b6 HD seems to be the best option.

Car will be daily driven for 2 or 3 HPDEs a year, and a handful of autocross just for lols.

Questions/Comments/Suggestions appreciated.
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Old 04-03-2015, 08:16 AM   #459
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search ebay with the eibach and hyperco part number of the springs you want, you'll occasionally get lucky and get a pair of springs for $65.
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Old 04-03-2015, 09:27 AM   #460
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It looks like Summit springs are $15 more than they used to be. The others have gone up a bit as well.

I don't use thrust bearings. I know several who don't.
We are probably just heathens.
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