ITT: We discuss T5 swaps and other information. - Page 2 - Miata Turbo Forum -Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain discuss the wondrous effects of boost and your miata...

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-13-2016, 12:49 PM   #21
SadFab Sales Lady
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 14,842
Total Cats: 937
Default

Pilot Bearing Part Number:

SKF 6003-2rs1/c3ht51
Timken 103CC

Thank you sean

Edit: Rockauto says that it is from a 1985 Peugeot 505. Thats awesome.

Last edited by aidandj; 09-13-2016 at 01:02 PM.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016, 12:57 PM   #22
SadFab Sales Lady
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 14,842
Total Cats: 937
Default

Double Post
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016, 03:03 PM   #23
SadFab Sales Lady
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 14,842
Total Cats: 937
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
Or send everything to me and I'll digitize it all. While I do have some T5z and miata 5speed stuff in solidworks, it's not enough for me to feel comfy building an adapter off of. I did them quickly to just have something in my assembly, not to base parts from. I built my adapter from the block models; I made my adapters to convert to a SBFord cranks & bell housing and i'm running all mustang clutch stuff.

But then again, I'm not sure how accurate it needs to be. T5z input shaft was .017" off SBF crank centerline when the bellhousing dowels were aligned.
If you could digitize a miata bellhousing that would be amazing. My currently plan includes the miata bellhousing, chopped of a 5 speed, and welded to a t5 flange. Miata flywheel, miata hydraulics, etc.

But getting the t5 perfectly centered is going to be hard. Current plan is to make a jig that bolts onto the miata bellhousing, and has a hole in the middle to align the input shaft correctly.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016, 03:19 PM   #24
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
TurboTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chesterfield, NJ
Posts: 6,177
Total Cats: 198
Default

I got that already, currently in SW2016. If you need it in an older generation SW file I may be able to find it on a backup. It may or may not be useful to you, but you may as well look at it. But again, if it were me, I'd base crank centerline-to-locating dowels off a digitized block than a transmission.

Your "chop, mill, weld, mill" is exactly how I would do it. The chopped & milled bellhousing and appropriate plate that gets welded to it should be milled with a large chamfer on the edge to facilitate penetration.

Fixture plate locates off engine/trans dowel holes. Seems pretty straight forward.
TurboTim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016, 03:24 PM   #25
SadFab Sales Lady
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 14,842
Total Cats: 937
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboTim View Post
I got that already, currently in SW2016. If you need it in an older generation SW file I may be able to find it on a backup. It may or may not be useful to you, but you may as well look at it. But again, if it were me, I'd base crank centerline-to-locating dowels off a digitized block than a transmission.

Your "chop, mill, weld, mill" is exactly how I would do it. The chopped & milled bellhousing and appropriate plate that gets welded to it should be milled with a large chamfer on the edge to facilitate penetration.

Fixture plate locates off engine/trans dowel holes. Seems pretty straight forward.
Do you have a digitized block also? I kind of assumed they would be the same.

Fixture plate would have dowels like the engine block to locate it on the trans bellhousing. Then slide the t5 in on top of it and get it lined up perfectly. Tack weld it. I think we are in agreement here, but i'm not sure if I understand what you are saying exactly.

Then either see if my 200amp chinaTIG can do it. Or take it to a shop with a bigger welder. We do have a 305amp tig at work. But its older than I am and I'm not very good with it.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016, 03:47 PM   #26
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
TurboTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chesterfield, NJ
Posts: 6,177
Total Cats: 198
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
Do you have a digitized block also? I kind of assumed they would be the same.
I do not have a digitized BP sorry. They are the 'same' as in the bolt together obviously. But in my limited experience, transmissions are more...sloppy? I.E. I have a ford drawing of the small block windsor. 2 ford blocks we have here matched it pretty much dead nuts. The Ford T5 didn't...was off by .017. That may or may not matter to you. It sounds like you are doing a one off so it probably doesn't matter...make it fit the trans you have.

Quote:
Fixture plate would have dowels like the engine block to locate it on the trans bellhousing. Then slide the t5 in on top of it and get it lined up perfectly. Tack weld it.
Ahh ok, I thought you were making an adapter in your CAD system then milling/welding it all together. In this case, I"m not sure why you need the Mazda trans CAD info. if you're eyeballing it then go or it



Quote:
Then either see if my 200amp chinaTIG can do it. Or take it to a shop with a bigger welder. We do have a 305amp tig at work. But its older than I am and I'm not very good with it.
It all depends on how thick your adapter plate is. I've never MIG'ed aluminum though.
TurboTim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016, 03:50 PM   #27
SadFab Sales Lady
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 14,842
Total Cats: 937
Default

I wouldn't be eyeballing it. The plate would be on the face of the mazda bellhousing. and it would have a hole for the input shaft. Input shaft would have an extension on it to center it perfectly in the middle of the bellhousing. Then I know that the bellhousing is perfectly centered on the T5 and I can weld the chopped off bellhousing to the T5 "flange"

Does your digitized bellhousing have the input shaft too? So i know exactly where the middle is?

And yes this is basically a one off. I might be making 2 or 3, but by no means production.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016, 04:13 PM   #28
Elite Member
iTrader: (9)
 
TurboTim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chesterfield, NJ
Posts: 6,177
Total Cats: 198
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
I wouldn't be eyeballing it. The plate would be on the face of the mazda bellhousing. and it would have a hole for the input shaft. Input shaft would have an extension on it to center it perfectly in the middle of the bellhousing. Then I know that the bellhousing is perfectly centered on the T5 and I can weld the chopped off bellhousing to the T5 "flange"

Does your digitized bellhousing have the input shaft too? So i know exactly where the middle is?

And yes this is basically a one off. I might be making 2 or 3, but by no means production.
What is your email and can you open a .dxf?
TurboTim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016, 04:14 PM   #29
SadFab Sales Lady
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 14,842
Total Cats: 937
Default

I'm gonna send you an email from when you sent me the t5 dxf
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016, 09:31 PM   #30
Newb
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 33
Total Cats: 3
Default

You should note that you have a 99-03 T5 from a V6. The tail shaft is slightly different for an electronic speedo but can easily be swapped for any gear driven unit and the input shaft has some differences but I can not confirm. Some tailshafts do not have a synchronized reverse.

The T5 was dropped behind v8 mustangs in 1996 when the 4.6 came out, the modular V8's from 96 up had a T45 and then a TR3650 which both have integral bell housings.
The T5 was behind every manual V6 mustang 1994-2010. I have no information on 2005-2010 T5's as this generation of mustang used the 4.0 V6 which has a different

The 3.8 and 4.0 do not share a bell housing bolt pattern.
Eunn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016, 09:33 PM   #31
SadFab Sales Lady
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 14,842
Total Cats: 937
Default

I thought I mentioned that. I wanted the electronic speedo, because it is a Hall sensor and can be used with a digital input.

2005-2010 had a body mounted "remote shifter"

Input shaft is the same for all the 3.8 V6's.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2016, 09:37 PM   #32
Newb
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 33
Total Cats: 3
Default

Sorry, you did. I glossed over that part using the mobile app earlier.
Eunn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2016, 07:38 PM   #33
SadFab Sales Lady
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 14,842
Total Cats: 937
Default

So I did some measuring and brainstorming with sean yesterday for a TOB solution. And I think I have an idea. The real questions are italicized and bolded.

Here are the measurements:

T5:

TOB Sleeve OD 1.435"
TOB Sleeve thickness ~.1", couldn't really measure it well.
Input shaft OD: 1.054"

Miata:

TOB Sleeve OD 1.296"

My first thought was to turn down the TOB sleeve on the T5 to fit a miata TOB. But that won't work, so my next plan is to press the sleeve out of the T5, and machine a new one, that has the OD of the Miata TOB, with an ID that will fit over the input shaft.

How much clearance should the input shaft have from the TOB sleeve? In reality will the input shaft move at all while supported by the pilot bearing?

Picture of T5 TOB sleeve





I also still need to get my hands on a 90-93 V8 T5 input shaft. Not sure if new or used is the way to go.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2016, 07:45 PM   #34
SadFab CEO
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: your mom's house phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,323
Total Cats: 402
Default

Just enough so things aren't touching. 10 thou would probably be a conservative minimum. The shaft should only move around radially as much as the bearings allow. Which should be less than a thou.
hi_im_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2016, 07:46 PM   #35
SadFab Sales Lady
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 14,842
Total Cats: 937
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hi_im_sean View Post
Just enough so things aren't touching. 10 thou would probably be a conservative minimum.
So plenty of room for a new shaft then.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2016, 07:51 PM   #36
SadFab CEO
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: your mom's house phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,323
Total Cats: 402
Default

There is plenty of room, you could easily have an 1/8" wall at the miata TOB OD, and still have ~20 thou clearance on the radius. This idea works, assuming it all presses apart and together the way we discussed. Torch and press ready yet?
hi_im_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2016, 08:12 PM   #37
SadFab Sales Lady
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 14,842
Total Cats: 937
Default

Now onto the alignment jig.

This one was all tommy's idea. Its basically a barbell looking fixture, that aligns on the miata crank, and the t5 flange. This allows perfect alignment, while the miata bellhousing is located to the block with dowels.

The fixture bolts to the crank, then the chopped miata bellhousing gets bolted to the block. The t5 flange then gets aligned on the fixture, and welded in place.



The last direction of alignment is to get the correct "rotational" alignment of the t5 flange, not sure exactly how I'll do that yet.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2016, 09:26 PM   #38
afm
Junior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 375
Total Cats: 30
Default

Aren't their pairs of flange bolts that are normally perfectly horizontal? Sounds like you could just make a plate to hold a digital angle gauge to the trans during jigging.
afm is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2016, 09:42 PM   #39
SadFab Sales Lady
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 14,842
Total Cats: 937
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by afm View Post
Aren't their pairs of flange bolts that are normally perfectly horizontal? Sounds like you could just make a plate to hold a digital angle gauge to the trans during jigging.
I assume they are. But I don't like to make assumptions.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2016, 10:26 PM   #40
afm
Junior Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 375
Total Cats: 30
Default

F-bodies tilt that flange 18 degrees CCW for ground clearance FWIW, so you have room to play with for packaging constraints. It just affects the shifter packaging.

Jigging the rotation off a vertical rear mount bolt would make for maximum ease of PPF attachment in the small chance this isn't exactly the same as a level shifter base.

A neighbor with a T5-swapped turbo Volvo is starting a swap on his Miata. May have pics someday.
afm is online now   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:13 PM.