Which shocks for better bilsteins?
12-07-2016, 12:19 AM
#1
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Which shocks for better bilsteins?
I've read through a few pages of the better bilstein thread and the results look very promising. That said, it seems like the folks doing this tend to have billies already.
I have an NB1 base with the stock shocks (showa?). I want to get better suspension for the car, but I'm not in any rush to do so. If you're starting for a blank slate, which shocks do you recommend for the setup: regular yellow bilsteins, hard s, or msm? I think I have access to a set of the hard s or msm for 200-250ish. I've read mixed things about the MSM suspension (from FCM?) relative to the regular billies, but I'm hoping to get input from those that know far more about this ish.
I don't think I'm going to be able to justify something like xida's for the car. Used illumina/FM is an option as well, but those all tend to be in the 500-600 dollar price range if not higher. I considered used Koni sports with my stock springs, but reading a few threads on here seemed to indicate that was a bad idea.
Thanks for any input!
I have an NB1 base with the stock shocks (showa?). I want to get better suspension for the car, but I'm not in any rush to do so. If you're starting for a blank slate, which shocks do you recommend for the setup: regular yellow bilsteins, hard s, or msm? I think I have access to a set of the hard s or msm for 200-250ish. I've read mixed things about the MSM suspension (from FCM?) relative to the regular billies, but I'm hoping to get input from those that know far more about this ish.
I don't think I'm going to be able to justify something like xida's for the car. Used illumina/FM is an option as well, but those all tend to be in the 500-600 dollar price range if not higher. I considered used Koni sports with my stock springs, but reading a few threads on here seemed to indicate that was a bad idea.
Thanks for any input!
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12-07-2016, 02:35 AM
#2
My understanding is that bilsteins come with certain miatas.... Maybe instead of reading a few pages you need to read alot of pages? I could be wrong,
I assumed the whole thread was making decent suspension from your own **** vs buying rubbish.
Then again i dont run bilsteins.
I assumed the whole thread was making decent suspension from your own **** vs buying rubbish.
Then again i dont run bilsteins.
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12-07-2016, 09:45 AM
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My understanding is that bilsteins come with certain miatas.... Maybe instead of reading a few pages you need to read alot of pages? I could be wrong,
I assumed the whole thread was making decent suspension from your own **** vs buying rubbish.
Then again i dont run bilsteins.
I assumed the whole thread was making decent suspension from your own **** vs buying rubbish.
Then again i dont run bilsteins.
-I have a base NB1, so it doesn't come with billies.
-I'm looking for better suspension.
-There are 3 or 4 bilstein setups that came on miatas: 'regular', hard S, and MSM. (I might be missing one).
My question is asking which of these is best suited for the conversion because they all have differences in damping and other parameters. I don't have a set, so I'd have to buy them. I haven't found anything written yet about whether this can be done to the base suspension. If it can, I might pursue that avenue since it's much more cost effective and I don't hate the stocks suspension yet, but feel it could be better. I'm not talking about which springs to buy.
Last edited by ridethecliche; 12-07-2016 at 12:11 PM.
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12-07-2016, 01:33 PM
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Most of my questions came on because I watched this a few months ago:
He basically said that the HD or S were more comparable to the stock showa's and the MSM and Hard S weren't really much of an upgrade afaik.
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12-07-2016, 10:08 PM
#6
Not really much of an upgrade is.......well just wrong. Yeah the compression numbers are fairly close but that should be dictated by the unsprung weight mostly. The rebound is miles better than the showa's, you can see it in his graph. The rebound under 3 in/s is what controls how the car transitions into turns, which is where the benefit is.
In short I like the hard S, the curves match fairly closely to the spring rates I want to run (800/450) if I keep the bump stops out of the equation. If you want to geek out I posted a spreadsheet on the last page of the better bilstein thread that will let you play with the numbers some. The MSM's aren't a bad setup either, I would pick either over the HD.
No real options other than bilsteins, Koni's are expensive, the rest are really expensive. At those higher price point most just buy a pre-engineered system and let them do the work for you.
In short I like the hard S, the curves match fairly closely to the spring rates I want to run (800/450) if I keep the bump stops out of the equation. If you want to geek out I posted a spreadsheet on the last page of the better bilstein thread that will let you play with the numbers some. The MSM's aren't a bad setup either, I would pick either over the HD.
No real options other than bilsteins, Koni's are expensive, the rest are really expensive. At those higher price point most just buy a pre-engineered system and let them do the work for you.
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12-08-2016, 12:15 AM
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Not really much of an upgrade is.......well just wrong. Yeah the compression numbers are fairly close but that should be dictated by the unsprung weight mostly. The rebound is miles better than the showa's, you can see it in his graph. The rebound under 3 in/s is what controls how the car transitions into turns, which is where the benefit is.
In short I like the hard S, the curves match fairly closely to the spring rates I want to run (800/450) if I keep the bump stops out of the equation. If you want to geek out I posted a spreadsheet on the last page of the better bilstein thread that will let you play with the numbers some. The MSM's aren't a bad setup either, I would pick either over the HD.
No real options other than bilsteins, Koni's are expensive, the rest are really expensive. At those higher price point most just buy a pre-engineered system and let them do the work for you.
In short I like the hard S, the curves match fairly closely to the spring rates I want to run (800/450) if I keep the bump stops out of the equation. If you want to geek out I posted a spreadsheet on the last page of the better bilstein thread that will let you play with the numbers some. The MSM's aren't a bad setup either, I would pick either over the HD.
No real options other than bilsteins, Koni's are expensive, the rest are really expensive. At those higher price point most just buy a pre-engineered system and let them do the work for you.
Thanks for the info. I'll find that spreadsheet.
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12-10-2016, 09:11 AM
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What is the difference? In any case, that's the recommendation for springs to run with the MSM shocks using sleeves. 2.5" diameter race springs, 450 front and 300 rear.
Like this:
https://www.summitracing.com/search/...3%2B4294919652
Like this:
https://www.summitracing.com/search/...3%2B4294919652
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12-10-2016, 12:58 PM
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What is the difference? In any case, that's the recommendation for springs to run with the MSM shocks using sleeves. 2.5" diameter race springs, 450 front and 300 rear.
Like this:
https://www.summitracing.com/search/...3%2B4294919652
Like this:
https://www.summitracing.com/search/...3%2B4294919652
Appreciate the response!
I'm quite a bit less confused now!
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12-11-2016, 04:57 PM
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Man, and to think I used to have some of Shaikh's shocks on my MSM (purchased by previous owner).
Guy is a ****.
Rather than starting a new thread, and since this has come to its conclusion...
Is anyone familiar with the Koni STR.T? I have them on my S2000 with swift springs and I love them.
they're also super cheap.
KONI STR.T (Orange) Shocks Struts Front & Rear Kit 98-05 Mazda MX-5 Miata NEW | eBay
Guy is a ****.
Rather than starting a new thread, and since this has come to its conclusion...
Is anyone familiar with the Koni STR.T? I have them on my S2000 with swift springs and I love them.
they're also super cheap.
KONI STR.T (Orange) Shocks Struts Front & Rear Kit 98-05 Mazda MX-5 Miata NEW | eBay
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12-11-2016, 09:39 PM
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Is anyone familiar with the Koni STR.T? I have them on my S2000 with swift springs and I love them.
they're also super cheap.
KONI STR.T (Orange) Shocks Struts Front & Rear Kit 98-05 Mazda MX-5 Miata NEW eBay
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12-11-2016, 10:54 PM
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You'd probably be far better off with one of FM's coilover setups afaik.
The hard S is also supposed to be pretty good for these. What are you running now?
The hard S is also supposed to be pretty good for these. What are you running now?
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12-11-2016, 11:14 PM
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Man, and to think I used to have some of Shaikh's shocks on my MSM (purchased by previous owner).
Is anyone familiar with the Koni STR.T? I have them on my S2000 with swift springs and I love them.
they're also super cheap.
KONI STR.T (Orange) Shocks Struts Front & Rear Kit 98-05 Mazda MX-5 Miata NEW eBay
Is anyone familiar with the Koni STR.T? I have them on my S2000 with swift springs and I love them.
they're also super cheap.
KONI STR.T (Orange) Shocks Struts Front & Rear Kit 98-05 Mazda MX-5 Miata NEW eBay
IMO, if I did it over again I'd just go with FM springs and Tokico Illuminas. You cannot get a better setup for the price. If I was forced to use Bilsteins, I'd do the collar conversion with basic coil over springs as found in the better bilstein coil over thread.
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12-11-2016, 11:19 PM
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RTC: See Andrew's comment. If I build a budget billie setup, I'll likely be starting with MSM shocks. You need the stronger rebound damping to work with the higher spring rates. Shaikh's assertions about the MSM shocks being horrible and "packing down" assumes a low spring rate that's not sufficient to extend the shocks again.
My 10AE has xidas on it, but i just picked up a '96 M that I'm going to do a real budget build on with stock power at the moment. affordable coils, roll bar, tires, freshen things up, done. Dad will drive it at MRLS next year.
My 10AE has xidas on it, but i just picked up a '96 M that I'm going to do a real budget build on with stock power at the moment. affordable coils, roll bar, tires, freshen things up, done. Dad will drive it at MRLS next year.
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