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Old 10-06-2016, 05:03 PM   #1
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Default What tyre sizes would you run for track 200bhp?

Hi all,

As the title states what width tyre would you guys be running for a turbo miata at around 200whp?

currently im on 195's with Toyo T1R's (not the best track tyre I know)

i will be upgrading to R888's and was wondering if 195's would be up for the job or to up it to 205/225 all round ?

cheers !
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Old 10-06-2016, 05:07 PM   #2
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The biggest ones your wallet will support.

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Old 10-06-2016, 05:07 PM   #3
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What wheels?
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Old 10-06-2016, 05:08 PM   #4
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/\ this.
specifically the size
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Old 10-06-2016, 05:25 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by hi_im_sean View Post
What wheels?
currently I have XXR 535 8.25J HOWEVER I was thinking about getting a smaller wheels like 7 or 7.5J with a lighter alloy.

Also Ian I can budget for 225's so if that what you guys think I will get them
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Old 10-06-2016, 05:42 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Jack P View Post
I was thinking about getting a smaller wheels like 7 or 7.5J with a lighter alloy.
You just killed a kitten.

225/45s

Always run the widest, lightets wheels you can afford, and fit. If you plan on getting other wheels, get 9s or 10... or 11s. Then you would run a 245 or 275.
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Old 10-06-2016, 05:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack P View Post
currently I have XXR 535 8.25J HOWEVER I was thinking about getting a smaller wheels like 7 or 7.5J with a lighter alloy.

Also Ian I can budget for 225's so if that what you guys think I will get them
The budget needs to include all of the other things necessary to run the tires. Realistlcally, I can see four levels:

1) The cheap solution is to use whatever wheels you've got and buy the biggest streetable tires that will physically fit. 225s in one of the 200tw "cheater" compounds (Rivals, RS2s, Star Specs, whatever) will fit on 15x8s (hell, they'll fit on 15x7s). They won't be as fast as they would be on wider wheels, but they're still faster than 205s or 195s.

2) Next up is to buy the widest wheels that will fit the car and put the widest streetable tires that will fit as well. This probably means 15x9s with the same 225s.

3) Next step is to go with dedicated track tires. This means a second set of wheels, a set of non-streetable tires (Toyo RRs, Hoosiers, whatever) and a way to get the wheels to the track (tire trailer or tow rig for the Miata). Obviously this is a big step up in capital equipment for the tow rig, or a smaller cost for a tire trailer but more hassle for swapping tires at the track.

4) Next above this is to go super wide on the tires (275 Hoosiers, for example, or some wide race slick compound) and wheels (15x11s are good, I hear). This entails chopping up the car to get them to fit.

I'm at step 3, using 225 Toyo RRs on dedicated 15x9 6ULs, towing the car to the track. It sounds like you probably want to be at step 2.

There is a case to be made that for lower-power cars, step 4 is "too much", because it is possible to add enough aero drag that it actually slows the car down even though it's getting more grip in the corners. This is heavily dependent on the course and power levels. You'll never hit it at an autox, for example. 200 rwhp on a big, fast track I guess it's possible. I really doubt you'd see it with 225 tires, though.

A few other points. If you're competing in a particular class, then obviously the class tire and wheel rules will modify this. 245 Victra RC-1s may change the "225" suggestions above -- they're relatively new and I don't know a lot about them. AFAIK there aren't any other "streetable" 245s around.

--Ian
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Old 10-06-2016, 05:54 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codrus View Post
The budget needs to include all of the other things necessary to run the tires. Realistlcally, I can see four levels:

1) The cheap solution is to use whatever wheels you've got and buy the biggest streetable tires that will physically fit. 225s in one of the 200tw "cheater" compounds (Rivals, RS2s, Star Specs, whatever) will fit on 15x8s (hell, they'll fit on 15x7s). They won't be as fast as they would be on wider wheels, but they're still faster than 205s or 195s.

2) Next up is to buy the widest wheels that will fit the car and put the widest streetable tires that will fit as well. This probably means 15x9s with the same 225s.

3) Next step is to go with dedicated track tires. This means a second set of wheels, a set of non-streetable tires (Toyo RRs, Hoosiers, whatever) and a way to get the wheels to the track (tire trailer or tow rig for the Miata). Obviously this is a big step up in capital equipment for the tow rig, or a smaller cost for a tire trailer but more hassle for swapping tires at the track.

4) Next above this is to go super wide on the tires (275 Hoosiers, for example, or some wide race slick compound) and wheels (15x11s are good, I hear). This entails chopping up the car to get them to fit.

I'm at step 3, using 225 Toyo RRs on dedicated 15x9 6ULs, towing the car to the track. It sounds like you probably want to be at step 2.

There is a case to be made that for lower-power cars, step 4 is "too much", because it is possible to add enough aero drag that it actually slows the car down even though it's getting more grip in the corners. This is heavily dependent on the course and power levels. You'll never hit it at an autox, for example. 200 rwhp on a big, fast track I guess it's possible. I really doubt you'd see it with 225 tires, though.

--Ian
Ian, really appreciate all that info man that's a big help! Step 3 where your at sounds like the one as I have wanted the 6UL's for a while now.

People i I have been speaking to have been putting me off the idea of a wider tyre saying it's not needed but I felt myself that that's what the car was lacking !

cheers, Jack
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Old 10-06-2016, 06:15 PM   #9
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Just a note: for 200 bhp, 225s is plenty big. going up to 10's/245's will likely result in you being slower than 9's on some tracks due to the additional drag.
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Old 10-06-2016, 06:18 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by turbofan View Post
Just a note: for 200 bhp, 225s is plenty big. going up to 10's/245's will likely result in you being slower than 9's on some tracks due to the additional drag.
I will be going with the 225's just about to order the wide arches to compensate for the extra width 😎😎
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Old 10-06-2016, 06:22 PM   #11
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You don't need arches to fit 225's unless you're running the wrong offset wheels.
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Old 10-06-2016, 06:25 PM   #12
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You don't need arches to fit 225's unless you're running the wrong offset wheels.
My xxr 535 are the wrong ET the wheel pokes out the arch on the rears. So for an 8J will I still need a +35 to sit flush ?
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Old 10-06-2016, 06:29 PM   #13
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optimal for performance for 225s would be a 36 offset 9" wide. That'll fit without modifying fenders beyond a light roll.
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Old 10-06-2016, 06:58 PM   #14
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15x9 +36 ish wheel with 225 tires (rs3, rival, similar).

I run this setup along with probably at least half of the MT community who does a track day or two here and there.
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Old 10-06-2016, 07:21 PM   #15
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Flares will mean much more drag, highly counterproductive. Your car will be faster just from replacing xxr's with a proper offset tire, because of scrub radius and such. 6ul's are for winners.
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Old 10-06-2016, 08:40 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbofan View Post
Just a note: for 200 bhp, 225s is plenty big. going up to 10's/245's will likely result in you being slower than 9's on some tracks due to the additional drag.
Youre right, I forgot the 200hp limitation.
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Old 10-06-2016, 09:31 PM   #17
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If you choose "Step 2":

In the US at least, if you want non-crazy-wearing 200TW 225/45R15 tires to run on a 15x9 wheel, the Hankook RS3v2 is the tire to have. They are silly cheap for what they are (~$115) and wear really well.
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Old 10-06-2016, 09:36 PM   #18
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Title says 200bhp, post says 200whp. Maybe splitting hairs, but which is it you plan to run?
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Old 10-06-2016, 11:59 PM   #19
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^TIMES 2 on that. Freaking fantastic, long wearing, grippy tire. Love mine, already have another set ready to go on when these finally die (6 days on the track and not nearly toast yet).
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Old 10-07-2016, 03:01 AM   #20
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He's in Europe, so no 225-45-15 RS3's, no BFG Rivals, no NT-01's, none of the Maxis tires are sold either. AFAIK the only 225 tires in stock on the continent are R888s (800$ a set) and a rally tire that's measures 205mm wide. Buying a set of 15x9 wheels+tires in that eco-system might not be the smartest thing to do.

205 availability is much better, I would think a set of 15x8's will be a smarter investment. They are plenty wide to get you started on track and you'll have actual tire choices ranging from cheap (Federals, nankang) to decent (R888s) to expensive but fast (Avon's, Advans, Dunlops, Michelins and plenty of full slicks). The quality difference between cheap slicks (lots of choices) and R888s is more then enough to compensate for the smaller width.
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