Energy Suspension bushings @ 949Racing
 

Energy Suspension has just released a master kit #11.18102 for the Miata that includes: Control arm, sway bar, end link and differential mount bushings

Available as a whole kit or as individual components

90-97
The Master kit 11.18102 is sized for the 90-97 cars with 19/11mm sway bars

99-05
For those of you with NB's not needing the NA's end link bushings, you can order the control arm 11.3105-6 and/or diff mounts separately and save a few bucks

Thanks go out to Bill Wilner for starting the ball rolling on this application a long time ago!

Prices on the 949Racing.com website

Master kit 11.18102
http://www.949racing.com/ProductImag...ta_1118102.jpg
Diff mounts
http://www.949racing.com/ProductImag...iff_114101.jpg
90-97 sway bar and end link upgrade kit
http://www.949racing.com/ProductImag...ta_1151023.jpg

emilio, can you extoll the virtues of the energy suspension brand urethane bushings over other brands? perhaps you've seen the cheap bushings threads here. Mostly I care about control arm bushings (NB) but the details of everything else may be useful for everyone.

Thanks
Matt

:werd: I'd also like to know why I'd want to install the red vs black

My first sets are due in shortly. I'll test and report.

Black and red are the same material, just dye.
Ordered a durometer to compare to the SP's.
The split bushings wil be easier to install.

I've personally been using ES stuff for over 20 years and it's always been a positive experience. Based on that and a long conversation with their head engineer yesterday, I decided to add them.

Overall, ES has proven much easier to deal with as a company than SP. When I asked SP about motor mounts, they said no emphatically. ES has a set in the works. When I asked SP about rack bushings for the NB, they said maybe. ES is scheduled to have them in the next few months. When I asked SP about improving their alignment correction bushings they said, "nothing wrong with them and FM hasn't had any problems". ES said, "we will take this opportunity to come up with a new alignment correction design for all applications". ES makes their own proprietary urethanes from scratch in their one facility. Some fairly exotic stuff for non-automotive applications.

So no specific details on the kit yet, but I really like the company and that matters to me.

With the offset drilled sleeve (vs. bushing)? That was obviously never thought out nor tested. I DID test one and it doesn't work. I can't believe it was ever produced. :hsugh:

oh hey back up a second, i was confused. i was thinking this was more superpro details. i didn't realize you added energy. but now that you sell both, a comparison is very cool.

btw, isn't the exchange rate with Aus going to hurt SuperPro's pricing structure here?

Trying not to bash the SP alignment correction but yeah, it's uh, not the ideal design shall we say. They also knurl the end so the subframe can grip them. Problem is the knurling reduces the height around the perimeter of the end face. This means the only part contacting the subframe is the small crescent of the original face leftover after knurling on offset bore. So their attempt at inceasing the friction actually reduces surface area and friction.

The other issue that SP had no answer to when asked, was how in the heck you are supposed to keep the offset pin oriented during installation and then verify it's still right after pushed into the subframe. Crickets..

Overall, I am quite happy with the SP standad bushings. They are super high quality and work beautifully. Just not happy with supply chain issues and engineering choices for the alignment correction kit.

The engineers at ES had a few ideas on it but it will require a rethink entirely. Any new design will be based on the same symetric pin as the standard kit but with an offset bore bushing. The trick is keeping the bushing from rotating and thats where the new design comes in.

:werd: sometimes you just can't fix wrong w/o starting over

I thought that the black had graphite impregnated?

likewise, reason i chose black over red, i was under the impression that black contained more graphite therefore making them slightly harder and less noisey

how off base am I?

I believe I answered this question already?

Black and red are the exact same material, just dye.

Ok I went and found where I saw the reference. Maybe you should check your facts. You may have answered it, but I believe you are wrong.

This is right from http://www.energysuspension.com/pages/comquest.html

I sat in a meeting with their head engineer Don Ham yesterday. I asked him quite specifcally what the difference was and he said there was none. His answer was that for the Miata application both the red and black have the exact same material and graphite content. So either he's wrong or the guy who wrote the ad copy is. Your guess is as good as mine.

The key word in the ad copy is "selected". As in, "Energy has impregnated selected black polyurethane components with graphite..."

However, this is the first time anyone has claimed that the 90-97 Miata bushings were not impregnated with graphite.

The Miata kit is graphite impregnated.

i know this is a stupid question with a stupid answer, but who cares what color the bushings are if they are the same material?

and as far as I know, there's no such thing as red graphite. I woudl expect the bushings to be a dark red like fresh blood, not a bright red. Interesting also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphit...led_properties

tell them to add MoS2 (molybdenum disulfide) instead.

sorry about the confeusion, didn't mean to call you out emillio, i just remembered reading somewhere that that was the case, i am glad i asked however since now we know more than we wanted to, black and red are the same and both have graphite in them
end of story, no?

The FAQ on their site does indeed conflict with what Don told me so I'll get a clarification.

Thanks. The graphite issue was what I was referring to in post #3.

great, thanks man
i know this so not a big deal, but its something i always thought was true, id hate to missinform more people. i'd really appreciate you clarifying this for all of us emillioOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! (night at the roxbury, sorry, i know you heared that a million times) [/crawls back into his little hole]
:giggle:

Red and black material
 

Ok, final version..

Talked to Brian Littlejohn, the engineer who actually made the kit. The Miata kit is not graphite impregnated. The red and black are the same non-impregnated material. Turns out virtually none of the OE replacement control arm kits for any car are impregnated. I will only stock the black because it's more stealth.

Also Bill durometer specs are what they made. I measured the first set I got in about an hour ago. So no toe control compliance built in to the rear kit.

95 durometer front uppers and sway bar bushings
88 durometer everywhere else

Super Pro 80 durometer
Polybush orange 75
Polybush blue 65

Thanks for clarifying.

thanks for the leg work, its appreciated
i will shove my foot in my mouth now...repeatedly
i still like the black ones better for same reason as why you will stock them...

is it a huge stretch to make the graphite impregnated variety or did he give any indication of performance differential? I suppose a nice can of molybdenum lube would go a long way to provide a dry film lubrication.

Not needed. Brian does not neccesarily speak corporate-ese. What you get with graphite is a better failure mode essentially. The graphite is only really useful if in an application where there might be potential for rapid complete failure like off road racing and industrial applications. The idea is the graphite is encapsulated and will be exposed as the bushing wears down. Of course, it's better to have them not wear down and just manually lube them every few years if needed. Doing graphites increases the costs and lead time. I have no interest in graphites at this point.

He told me in all honesty that you could assemble the Miata kit bone dry (Don't!) and it would probably last 15 years, just squeaky. The lube provided increases life, reduces friction and keeps them quiet.

Another cool tidbit, the two piece bushing is designed to have a .050" gap when installed. You can add a bit more lube to the opposing faces when installing and have a bit of a reservoir acting directly on the center pin.

One could also careful align a zerk to fill that void. He emphatically recommended against using a powered grease gun, manual only, two pumps max.

Is the toe control feature designed into the OEM bushings even an issue with aftermarket bushings?

Depends on who you ask. Some aftermarkets may have multi durometer, the Energy and Super Pro do not.

Without the compliance effect, you get no dynamic toe in. That might mean running factory rear toe setting for autocross or track use as opposed to the zero toe I recommend for factory bushings. No exact value, just experiment and see what works for you.

I'm compiling a list for all the durometer values I can find for all the OE and aftermarket kits. If anyone has accurate data to share, please do.

Checked durometers and they match Bill's original request and Brian's data.

88 Energy Suspension front lower and all rear control arm
95 Energy Suspension front upper, sway bar and differential mount
80 Super Pro control arm, all
65 Polybush blue- soft
75 Polybush orange- sport
? Powerflex
70 Maruha rubber
55-65 Mazda Comp rubber

Safe to say the ES will be the best peformance option. No idea on ride quality yet as I haven't gotten them in a car yet. Planning a test session in about 10 days at Streets of Willow.

Base kit - Control arms only
http://www.949racing.com/server/ES_Miata_113105-6_L.jpg

A couple of questions about installing the zerks:

-Did you drill all the way through the bushing? It would seem so, since you'd want the grease to distribute to the inside of the bushing.
-How much does the zerk protrude into the bushing?
-Is there any fear of the zerk fixing the bushing in place.
-Any advantage in using thread in vs press in?

Thanks!

Maybe I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the urethane part is fixed relative to the control arm for example. The movement occurs between the urethane part and the metal sleeve. The zerk fitting is not long enough to disrupt this movement.

Damn nice that they groove the inside of the bushings.

C

RISE, ZOMBIE THREAD!
...always better to resurrect an old thread than start a new one.


I've got a set of these bushings that came with my 949 'big grip kit', I'm getting ready to install them on some freshly sandblasted/ painted control arms and subframes.

Can what I've read/ learned be confirmed for my install:

-I understand that these will be installed, then possibly have the poly end faces sanded slightly to make the center metal bushing fit snug against the subframe. (see Keith's Targa build pic: Targa Miata)

-I also understand that I may need to use a flap wheel or sanding roll to ream the ID of the poly bushing so the metal bushing does not bind.

-If the metal bushing does not move from the bolt/ subframe, and the poly bushing doesn't move from the control arm/ zerk fitting, why would we grease the poly-to-control arm mating surface? Wouldn't glue be better to prevent movement? All the movement is supposed to be on the inner metal bushing to poly pushing (ribbed) surface.

Lastly, during this set-up, is my goal to have the arm 'floppy' and bearing like; or should there be a *slight* amount of sticktion/ binding (easliy moved by hand)?

Thanks-

We don't take any of the steps mentioned. The thrust end of the bushings needs to be lubes as generously as the pivot pin. There will be some stiction when it's all buttoned up and torqued. Rough guess, <25lbs breakaway torque and maybe 10lbs continuous to move it. Much more than that and you can dig back into to fine tune things.