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Old 03-11-2008, 04:03 AM   #1
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Default Energy Suspension bushings @ 949Racing


Energy Suspension has just released a master kit #11.18102 for the Miata that includes: Control arm, sway bar, end link and differential mount bushings

Available as a whole kit or as individual components

90-97
The Master kit 11.18102 is sized for the 90-97 cars with 19/11mm sway bars

99-05
For those of you with NB's not needing the NA's end link bushings, you can order the control arm 11.3105-6 and/or diff mounts separately and save a few bucks

Thanks go out to Bill Wilner for starting the ball rolling on this application a long time ago!

Prices on the 949Racing.com website

Master kit 11.18102

Diff mounts

90-97 sway bar and end link upgrade kit
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Old 03-11-2008, 11:39 AM   #2
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emilio, can you extoll the virtues of the energy suspension brand urethane bushings over other brands? perhaps you've seen the cheap bushings threads here. Mostly I care about control arm bushings (NB) but the details of everything else may be useful for everyone.

Thanks
Matt
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Old 03-11-2008, 11:42 AM   #3
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I'd also like to know why I'd want to install the red vs black
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Old 03-11-2008, 01:45 PM   #4
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My first sets are due in shortly. I'll test and report.

Black and red are the same material, just dye.
Ordered a durometer to compare to the SP's.
The split bushings wil be easier to install.

I've personally been using ES stuff for over 20 years and it's always been a positive experience. Based on that and a long conversation with their head engineer yesterday, I decided to add them.

Overall, ES has proven much easier to deal with as a company than SP. When I asked SP about motor mounts, they said no emphatically. ES has a set in the works. When I asked SP about rack bushings for the NB, they said maybe. ES is scheduled to have them in the next few months. When I asked SP about improving their alignment correction bushings they said, "nothing wrong with them and FM hasn't had any problems". ES said, "we will take this opportunity to come up with a new alignment correction design for all applications". ES makes their own proprietary urethanes from scratch in their one facility. Some fairly exotic stuff for non-automotive applications.

So no specific details on the kit yet, but I really like the company and that matters to me.
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Old 03-11-2008, 01:59 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
...When I asked SP about improving their alignment correction bushings...
With the offset drilled sleeve (vs. bushing)? That was obviously never thought out nor tested. I DID test one and it doesn't work. I can't believe it was ever produced.
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Old 03-11-2008, 03:22 PM   #6
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oh hey back up a second, i was confused. i was thinking this was more superpro details. i didn't realize you added energy. but now that you sell both, a comparison is very cool.

btw, isn't the exchange rate with Aus going to hurt SuperPro's pricing structure here?
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Old 03-11-2008, 03:45 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by m2cupcar View Post
With the offset drilled sleeve (vs. bushing)? That was obviously never thought out nor tested. I DID test one and it doesn't work. I can't believe it was ever produced.
Trying not to bash the SP alignment correction but yeah, it's uh, not the ideal design shall we say. They also knurl the end so the subframe can grip them. Problem is the knurling reduces the height around the perimeter of the end face. This means the only part contacting the subframe is the small crescent of the original face leftover after knurling on offset bore. So their attempt at inceasing the friction actually reduces surface area and friction.

The other issue that SP had no answer to when asked, was how in the heck you are supposed to keep the offset pin oriented during installation and then verify it's still right after pushed into the subframe. Crickets..

Overall, I am quite happy with the SP standad bushings. They are super high quality and work beautifully. Just not happy with supply chain issues and engineering choices for the alignment correction kit.

The engineers at ES had a few ideas on it but it will require a rethink entirely. Any new design will be based on the same symetric pin as the standard kit but with an offset bore bushing. The trick is keeping the bushing from rotating and thats where the new design comes in.
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Old 03-11-2008, 03:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
...not the ideal design shall we say...
sometimes you just can't fix wrong w/o starting over
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Old 03-11-2008, 04:18 PM   #9
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I thought that the black had graphite impregnated?
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Old 03-11-2008, 05:03 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by jayc72 View Post
I thought that the black had graphite impregnated?
likewise, reason i chose black over red, i was under the impression that black contained more graphite therefore making them slightly harder and less noisey

how off base am I?
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Old 03-11-2008, 05:18 PM   #11
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I believe I answered this question already?

Black and red are the exact same material, just dye.
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Old 03-11-2008, 05:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
I believe I answered this question already?

Black and red are the exact same material, just dye.
Ok I went and found where I saw the reference. Maybe you should check your facts. You may have answered it, but I believe you are wrong.

Quote:
Question: What is the difference between the
Energy Suspension ® red and black polyurethane components?

Answer: Both are our Energy's HYPER-FLEX™ performance polyurethane formulations. Energy has impregnated selected black polyurethane components with graphite–to add a lubrication property. Additionally, both Energy Suspension ® red and black polyurethane components are engineered differently than OEM rubber components–to be free a floating and non-binding design. This allows for the additional durometer (firmness) of the components, which adds to the performance improvement of the vehicle overall.
Through its 25 years of design and formulation of polyurethane, Energy's polyurethane components are the best on the market today.
This is right from http://www.energysuspension.com/pages/comquest.html
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Old 03-11-2008, 05:46 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayc72 View Post
Ok I went and found where I saw the reference. Maybe you should check your facts. You may have answered it, but I believe you are wrong.



This is right from http://www.energysuspension.com/pages/comquest.html
I sat in a meeting with their head engineer Don Ham yesterday. I asked him quite specifcally what the difference was and he said there was none. His answer was that for the Miata application both the red and black have the exact same material and graphite content. So either he's wrong or the guy who wrote the ad copy is. Your guess is as good as mine.
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Old 03-11-2008, 05:52 PM   #14
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The key word in the ad copy is "selected". As in, "Energy has impregnated selected black polyurethane components with graphite..."

However, this is the first time anyone has claimed that the 90-97 Miata bushings were not impregnated with graphite.
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Old 03-11-2008, 06:02 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by MazDilla View Post
The key word in the ad copy is "selected". As in, "Energy has impregnated selected black polyurethane components with graphite..."

However, this is the first time anyone has claimed that the 90-97 Miata bushings were not impregnated with graphite.
The Miata kit is graphite impregnated.
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Old 03-11-2008, 06:06 PM   #16
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i know this is a stupid question with a stupid answer, but who cares what color the bushings are if they are the same material?

and as far as I know, there's no such thing as red graphite. I woudl expect the bushings to be a dark red like fresh blood, not a bright red. Interesting also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphit...led_properties

tell them to add MoS2 (molybdenum disulfide) instead.
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Old 03-11-2008, 06:27 PM   #17
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sorry about the confeusion, didn't mean to call you out emillio, i just remembered reading somewhere that that was the case, i am glad i asked however since now we know more than we wanted to, black and red are the same and both have graphite in them
end of story, no?
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Old 03-11-2008, 06:36 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whaaamx5 View Post
, black and red are the same and both have graphite in them
end of story, no?
The FAQ on their site does indeed conflict with what Don told me so I'll get a clarification.
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Old 03-11-2008, 06:39 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
The FAQ on their site does indeed conflict with what Don told me so I'll get a clarification.
Thanks. The graphite issue was what I was referring to in post #3.
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Old 03-11-2008, 06:45 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
The FAQ on their site does indeed conflict with what Don told me so I'll get a clarification.
great, thanks man
i know this so not a big deal, but its something i always thought was true, id hate to missinform more people. i'd really appreciate you clarifying this for all of us emillioOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! (night at the roxbury, sorry, i know you heared that a million times) [/crawls back into his little hole]
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