36-1 T Protoge trigger wheel - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 01-03-2014, 09:46 AM   #1
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Question 36-1 T Protoge trigger wheel

Like many others on this site, i picked up a 36-1 tooth trigger wheel to get more accurate fuel and ignition while the engine is in transient states. This is significantly higher resolution that the stock 4 tooth crank trigger wheel that came on my 2000 miata.

The Megasquirt guys have already made this trigger wheel work with their system here:https://www.miataturbo.net/ecus-tuni...1-wheel-64544/

This wheel is quite cheap as it is the one from the 2000 Protoge ZM-DE 1.6l. The 36-1t tooth profile is different than my 4t but it retains the same outside tooth tip diameter which the 99-00 miata crank sensor is able to read perfectly.

36-1 T Protoge trigger wheel-plates.jpg
This picture shows the two crank trigger wheels in pretty close to TDC position. The green dot at the lower right shows pretty close to where the Crank position sensor is in this position. This is somewhere around the 80*-90* position from the missing tooth.

After quite a bit of reading in the e420c ECU manual and looking up bits of information from the rest of the internet, i took a guess as to what my trigger settings needed to be and failed.
36-1 T Protoge trigger wheel-trigger-settings.jpg

Trigger 1 (crank) and 2 (cam) sensors are both reading properly and are giving me output pulses. However, when cranking, the rpm signal swings wildly between physically impossible numbers. So clearly i have something hosed up in my guess work.

Has anyone here managed to get a setup similar to this to work? How is your hardware and software configured?

Thanks,
Jared
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Old 01-03-2014, 05:02 PM   #2
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I've got the trigger wheel but haven't had a chance to install it.

I think your angle table should be 170,160,150,140,130,120,110,100,90,80,70,60,50,40, 30,20,10,0,-1. The first value is the angle of the first tooth after the gap. The other settings look like what Andy suggested to me.
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Old 01-03-2014, 05:46 PM   #3
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I am using the Protege wheel and compared it to the OE wheel here:
mx5 bp-vvt and 36-1 wheel

The picture you have included above of the wheel above is from my scanner!

The trigger angles for the Protege wheel should be:
80,70,60,50,40,30,20,10,0,170,160,150,140,130,120, 110,100,90,-1
You'll then want to fine tune the offset with a timing light.

I had to swap ignition outputs 1/4 and 2/3 around.

If you are still having no luck after these changes, let me know and I will take a screenshot of my triggering settings.

Cheers
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Old 01-03-2014, 06:47 PM   #4
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ah, excellent. i will try the ignition input swap and report back.

yes the image above is from your older post in the adaptronic forum.

thanks Tim!
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Old 01-04-2014, 02:47 PM   #5
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so swapping the ignition outputs did not fix anything. it may help in the end, but the inputs are still messed up.

I think there may be something up with the cam reset...

Tim, Can you upload a copy of your .ecu file or a screenshot of your trigger settings?
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Old 01-05-2014, 06:22 AM   #6
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Hi Jared,

Here are my triggering settings:



Cheers
Attached Thumbnails
36-1 T Protoge trigger wheel-nb-mx-5-36-1-protege-wheel-trigger-settings.png  
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Old 01-05-2014, 06:30 AM   #7
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It looks like our settings are already the same, bummer!

Maybe send an e-mail to [email protected] with the details at the bottom of this thread?

Trigger setup checking / engine doesn't run checklist

My RPM signal was always really solid even when I had to switch the ignition outputs.
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Old 01-06-2014, 12:27 AM   #8
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Ok, after seeing that i felt that there had to be something that i screwed up... Turns out i did, one of my ignition connections was not making complete contact.

With the trigger settings that i initially posted and Tim's ignition swap recommendation it started up. The rpm reading is still not as smooth as i would like for it to be, but i might be picky at this point.
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Old 01-06-2014, 06:47 PM   #9
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Tim, did your tach read double rpm after you made this change?
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Old 01-06-2014, 06:51 PM   #10
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No change on my tach, it is driven from IGN3 still (you can see the settings above).

Is yours doing double?
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Old 01-06-2014, 11:24 PM   #11
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indeed the tach is reading double... i wonder if the tach output is different for the select ecu than it is for my e420c.
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Old 01-08-2014, 01:02 PM   #12
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My tach setting on my e420c is set to "Ign3 Output = Tachometer(1.5ms)" and it reads correctly. I noticed that yours is set to 50% DC.
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Old 01-08-2014, 08:02 PM   #13
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i tried all of the different possible ignition 3 outputs from the selection box. none of them change the tach...

Who knows what the actual output from the adaptronic to the tach is? Is this this has to be configurable within the software.
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Old 01-14-2014, 10:57 AM   #14
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Everything related to this 36-1 crank trigger is fixed now. After digging through this wiring diagram and comparing it to my harness i found that the E420C was not contributing to the tach reading.
Attachment 99770

I cut the "Dash 1" wire on the harness and started the car. the tach did not move at all.
Attachment 99771

With this signal wire confirmed, i then cut the IGN3 wire and soldered it directly to the cut Tacho wire output.
Attachment 99772

The trigger settings for IGN3 work properly as both 50%DC and as 1.5ms under the Ignition3 output dropdown box.


From what i understand, you others did not have this issue since i have an older style harness board (v0.0)
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Old 01-14-2014, 04:41 PM   #15
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I built my own harness, so I've never had any of the PnP issues.

Thanks for confirming the settings. I'm going to try and swap trigger wheels this weekend.
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Old 01-15-2014, 08:03 PM   #16
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Worth noting. The trigger settings I posted last where after I adjusted the trigger offset to make the ecu read the same as my timing light. Yours may vary slightly.

Other than adressing the undocumented portions of this swap that I mentioned in this thread, it really was an easy swap.
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Old 01-15-2014, 08:06 PM   #17
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Those pictures aren't working for me, but after adjusting with a timing light did you end up with very similar triggering numbers as mine? 75, 65, ...
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Old 01-16-2014, 12:17 AM   #18
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yes, after the timing light verification my trigger angle settings are as follows:
75,65,55,45,35,25,15,5,175,165,155,145,135,125,115 ,105,95,85
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Old 01-16-2014, 05:45 AM   #19
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Cool, thanks. Those numbers should be correct for 99% of NB engines since they aren't adjustable like the old rear mounted CAS on the NA. Always worth checking base timing anyway though!
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Old 02-09-2014, 08:11 PM   #20
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So I swapped to the 36-1 wheel this weekend and was unable to get the car to run well. I configured the settings like in post 6. Without swapping ign1 & ign2 the car wouldn't run as expected so I swapped them and it would kind of run but it sounded like it was running on 3 cyl. I locked the timing to 10* and the yellow mark was on 10* and the white mark was at T on the crank pulley.

I tried adjusting the crank sensor but that had no effect.

Am I a spaz or did I forget something?
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